Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:12 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 59 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:04 am 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!

Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:31 pm
Posts: 1089
Location: Caribou, Maine
I watched the Earhart show on the History Channel and thought to present a report to y’all. I am putting this into a new thread to give this a fresh start (Scott can put this into the established thread if he wishes).

The History Channel (HC) story has little new evidence other than the newly available photo. That photo, presented as “proof” (this is the ancient aliens channel after all) is not at all convincing to the critical mind. The two people presented in the photo as Amelia Earhart (AE) and Fred Noonan (FN) are among a group of civilians, with “AE” seated with back to the camera. HC says that the two are Caucasians but I do not see that the fuzzy image allows that conclusion. Various body measurements are used to support the FN and AE conclusions, but the bottom line to me is that the photo is not very clear and thus any such measurements are contrived.

In the background of the photo is a military freighter identified as the Koshu Maru. There appears to be a barge behind the freighter that might include an airplane, but again the fuzzy image is not definitive. There is however, no military guard around “AE and FN.” Thus, to me there is no contextual evidence that these are AE and FN except the possible inclusion of an airplane in the photo. The photo has additional problems, as all the other ground-based photos included in the National Archives file were from after 1940.

One interesting element of the HC story is the recovery of some possible airplane parts from the Mili Atoll location where AE allegedly landed. These include a curved piece that has a resemblance to a wheel-well edge from a Lockheed Electra. This physical evidence, while much better than the aluminum “patch” found at Nikumaroro (Gardner) Island, is not conclusive.

There is nothing else that is new evidence in the HC story. There are a fair number of often conflicting reports among the residents of Mili Atoll, Jaluit and Saipan (the location where AE allegedly landed and was taken to enroute to the military base where she and FN were killed) and HC appears to have essentially cherry-picked from among these, I think largely based on whatever could produce good video for the episode.

A Japanese investigator, Fukiko Aoki did research and published a book on the claims in 1982 that included interviews of a Koshu Maru crew member and read the surviving log book to find no evidence of AE. From what I can ascertain, Koshu Maru was sunk (by the submarine USS Ray) in 1944; the wreck is actually accessible to scuba divers.

The investigators in the HC story have the – my take – feigned skepticism that those of us who have seen the “Finding Bigfoot” episodes easily recognize. None of the nonsupportive evidence provided here is included in the HC story, which is to say that the HC episode does not include true critical analysis.

I will say that the evidence provided for the Mili-Saipan theory is much better than that for Nikumaroro (Gardiner) Island, primarily due to the often problematic eyewitness reports, but I think the crashed and sank explanation remains the most viable. Crashed-and-Sank, of course, has no real evidence of its own other than the radio messages from AE while in the air, but lacking any good/consistent evidence from elsewhere (Mili-Saipan, Nikumaroro, East New Britain and there are other hypotheses) this remains the most logical. Occam’s Razor and all that.

There are a number of Crash-and-Sank hypotheses, but I think the best is that proposed by Elgen Long, which is that AE ran out of fuel immediately after the last message; this explains the lack of additional messages. If correct, then AE/FN should rest in deep water not very far from Howland Island. AE’s last message, however, was fainter than the previous, so there is some distance and there are quite-different ideas about her direction with respect to Howland Island. That means that there is a tremendous amount of area to be covered, and as I said in a previous message, no certainty that the airplane is intact.

This I hope provides a basic summary of the evidence, to which others can add their perspectives. Let us apply critical thinking to this threat.

_________________
Kevin McCartney


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:53 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:18 pm
Posts: 1933
Location: Meriden,Ct.
Don't drag Bigfoot into this... :P

Phil

_________________
A man's got to know his limitations.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:18 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!

Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:37 pm
Posts: 1380
I caught the last part of the show and did not see the whole show. What I would like to know is what exactly happened to the bones recovered from the grave that were recovered by the expedition in the late 1960's? If they could be located and a DNA match could/could not be established with AE's living niece, that would prove/disprove that piece of the puzzle.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:00 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:15 pm
Posts: 1395
Location: San Diego CA
History Channel needs to send in the American Picker guys. Those guys find everything!

And then they can get it appraised by the Pawn Stars


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:25 pm
Posts: 520
Location: Travis AFB
After watching the History Channel documentary "Amelia Earhart - The Lost Evidence"

I believe it is very plausible, but More needs to be done.

I thought of many possible leads that could be followed that would further their investigation and conclusions. Can you think of more?

1. The tiny Marshall Island where metal airplane parts were discovered could be searched again by professionals looking for more artifacts.

2. The metal artifacts recovered so far could be analyzed again and compared to a known piece of Earhart's Lockheed plane that I know exists. A piece of her plane is authenticated to have broken off in Hawaii when she had an accident there from her previous attempt. This piece I believe is in a private collection.
http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetective ... art-plane/
The aircraft artifacts are 99% aluminum, but the 1% of other materials could provide an exact match.

3. Search for more or aerial photos of the Marshall Islands before WWII. The Lockheed plane may show up.

4. The flags on the ship in the background of the photo may spell out a date. Each flag is a number or letter, what do they say?

5. Research Japanese archives, there has got to be a report from the Marshall Island Japanese sent back to mainland Japan somewhere.

6. Do the DNA test of Earhart's niece, keep on file for future reference. Use those results to test: Prison cell on Saipan, soil samples from cemetery on Saipan, any other suspected location she may have been, etc

7. Search for those bones that Fred Goerner dug up !

8. Search for those bones the Marines dug up!

9. Search for more in the National Archives, How about those classified decoded Japanese messages from the Marshall Islands.

10. Don't give up! The truth is out there.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:49 pm
Posts: 126
Location: Germany
A Japanese blogger debunked this in half an hour....

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... r-by-japan

...basically it was a photo that was published two years before they were saying.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:22 am
Posts: 620
Location: VA, USA
Good man! He's posted the image from the book on his site.

http://yamanekobunko.blog52.fc2.com/blog-entry-338.html


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:10 am 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:57 pm
Posts: 1234
Location: Lacombe, Alberta, Canada
For my money that airplane is within a hundred miles of Howland, in some VERY deep water, and the only one with the slightest chance of ever finding it is Bob Ballard, but even that is at least a million to one shot. I hope dogs can't catch malaria. :roll:

_________________
Defending Stearmans on WIX since Jeff started badmouthing them back in 2005.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:31 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!

Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:37 pm
Posts: 1380
Richard W. wrote:
Good man! He's posted the image from the book on his site.

http://yamanekobunko.blog52.fc2.com/blog-entry-338.html


I looked around for that pier in the pic on Jabor on Google Earth. This maybe it.

Image


A little drift here that may be more interesting. If we follow the Jabor beach to the NE, we hit the nearby island of Emidj. If you look at Google Earth, you can see the old Japanese sea plane ramps with bomb craters in them. The below site talks about the WWII battle there. If you look between the two seaplane ramps, it looks like there is something in the water....maybe a wing? If so, I wonder if it could be one of the H8K2 Emily's?? You can see a light colored spot further out that could be the pinnacle mention at the site below where one of the Emily's is supposed to be at. Pretty cool stuff. It would be fun to walk around that old sea plane base.

https://www.pacificwrecks.com/provinces ... emiej.html


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:11 pm
Posts: 671
AE Mystery Saga!!

Read the previous links about a poss amazing picture!! Tks for the links.

Who are the 2 souls suspected as FN & Amelia Earhart in both pics???


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:51 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:48 pm
Posts: 1102
Location: West Valley, Silicon Valley
Jesse C. wrote:
History Channel needs to send in the American Picker guys. Those guys find everything!

And then they can get it appraised by the Pawn Stars

Image

_________________
remember the Oogahonk!
old school enthusiast of Civiltary Warbirds and Air Racers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:29 am 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:23 pm
Posts: 2319
Location: Atlanta, GA
I agree - while the photo may not be of AE or FN, what Caucasians are in the photo and what is actually seen in the scene?

Second point, much seems to be made of radio transmissions suddenly weak or otherwise. I have seen cases where modern radios vary in quality from moment to moment and neither party moved - or maybe moved only the angle of the antenna.

It would be neat to know the real truth.

Ken

_________________
"Take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:11 pm
Posts: 671
Ken:

Hi!

Good data/info about the vast subject of radio Tx heard al over the world some 2-3 days after the AE crashed on July 1937.

One question came to mind when I 1st looked at he B/W of the History Channel a few days ago on the www.

1. What was AE & F/N doing during the "Time-Line" of events at that pier poss July 1937 just looking at the poss remains of their a/c about to be loaded on the Japanese ship???

According to the H/Channel a special train tracks with wheels had to be built in the island/jungle just to transport the a/c remains from the crash site island and then across to a loading barge to another place??

....where was AE & FN after their poss rescue during all these time??? How did they ended-up a few days/months later at Jawit Atoll with the remains of their a/c again?? Never mind the absence of Japanese guards in the area!!!!!!

p.s ....the real factual time-line of events are still out there. Mr. David Billings the Australian researcher is indeed a bit correct in his theory, AE did turn back 180 degrees!!! 2 B cont.....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:58 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!

Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:31 pm
Posts: 1089
Location: Caribou, Maine
CNN has a story on the debunked photo with the appropriate sideline: Gullibles Island

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/07/13/amelia-earhart-photo-debunked-moos-pkg-erin.cnn

To continue the critical summary which started this thread, the post-landing/splash message get a lot of coverage from TIGHAR. I think most or more likely all of these fall under "FAKE NEWS" - not from AE but rather faked by a sender or receiver. I have personally done no authoritative review of these, but there appear to be many of these with no consistent message. Both TIGHAR and Mili-Siapan advocates select what might fit their hypothesis and ignore the others.

From what I understand, messages where picked up in the US but not by the USCGC Itasca that was much closer, which leads many to conclude that the messages were sent from some place closer to where they were recieved. The History Channel story showed an attempt to send a message from Mili with many shortwave radio people in US attempting to get the message, but apparently no one heard it.

One thing that I did not see in the History Channel story (though I may have missed it) was any speculation on whether the LE landed gear down or gear up at Mili. There seemed to be no discussion on the nature of the ground. From what I understand, the radio would only work when one of the engines was running.

_________________
Kevin McCartney


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:11 pm
Posts: 671
AE Saga Folks:

Some points to ponder about the intriguing History Channel AE Photograph:

1. Some 2 days later after the show a Japanese POC found the same photo on a Japanese travel book about the S. Seas given the date of book as Oct 1935 & more specifically pg #113.

Some other photos have also emerged fm the book about AE but is not listed on Pg 113 but page # 41 if you look closely!!

p.s How do we know for sure that the book was published in Palau Island c. Oct 1935??? Has anyone seen this book?? What it actually exist is a copy of the page in Tokio, Japan ..but what about the book??

2. The B/w photo is indeed interesting! What about if the book was published post 1935??? Cpt Fred Noonan parted his hair fm L-R. The existing photo shows that it was developed in opposite way!!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 59 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], JohnH and 85 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group