List of Notable Warbird People

[Spitty]

Gregor Guttenberger
http://www.arsenal-45.de/ueber_uns_body_e.html
Taizo Nakamura
https://twitter.com/A6M232

[ZRX61]

I would nominate that guy who loses his phone from the back seat of a T6 on video. The expression on his face is comedy gold. Anyone able to name him?

[Noha307]

One I came across just tonight: Wes Agnew[1]

[norman malayney]

I question the "dubious" process of selecting important warbird personages--especially authors. To list Martin W. Bowman in the author category is a travesty. In his production, "Men Who Flew the F-4 Phantom", I posted a critique on Amazon.com as following:

"The first questions to ask of a Bowman book is, "Who's work is this?" He has a bad habit of claiming copyright to other writers' work.

"Go online to <https://media.defense.gov/2010/Sep/21/2001329821/-1/-1/0/AFD-100921-010.pdf> to view "Aces and Aerial Victories" authored by Futrell, Greenhalgh, Grubb, Hasselwander, Jakob and Ravenstein. The F-4 combat contents in "Aces and Aerial Victories" was edited out and incorporated into Bowman's book. This verbatim chronology of combat events serves as a framework to attach additional information, many from unattributed sources. US Navy F-4B victories are included with first-hand accounts and many lack attribution.

"Go to page 27 of A&AV and compare this text to the lower half of page 27 in Bowman's book. It is VERBATIM with NO ATTRIBUTION to the original source. The names of US Air Force historians' who compiled A&AV has been purged from their work. This lack of attribution continues throughout the book. This unethical behavior is unacceptable in US academia and should be unacceptable in the book publishing industry."

I recommend the forum editor delete the listing of "alleged" warbird personages from this web page. There are more important intellectual issues in aviation history to address than this nonsense.

[Noha307]

I question the "dubious" process of selecting important warbird personages--especially authors. To list Martin W. Bowman in the author category is a travesty.

The intended criteria for inclusion here is the same one that Time uses for their Person of the Year - only that the person had a major "impact" on the warbird community. Nothing in this thread is intended to be a value judgement on whether they were a good or bad person.

I will be the first to admit plagiarism is unacceptable (you'll note that in my other threads - even in my previous posts in this thread - I am always careful to include references) and am glad that you brought up potential issues with Bowman's work, as it should indeed be mentioned. However, that does not detract from the fact that he had a large impact on the historiography of warbirds. (Indeed, one Google Books page describes him as "one of Britain's best-known aviation historians and authors".) Martin Caidin is guilty of straight up fabrication, and he is also included here. Some people similarly objected to Ric Gillespie.

The criteria for determining impact was intentionally left broad to cast as large a net as possible. The goal here was to have as many suggestions as possible so that no one is missed, not develop an authoritative list.

There are more important intellectual issues in aviation history to address than this nonsense.

I see no reason there is not room for all issues. If you would like to discuss one, please feel free to start a different thread. I always look forward to in-depth discussions of warbird philosophy and wish there were more!

[Noha307]

Two semi-biographical articles I came across recently, both about men already mentioned in this thread:

• Predestination - Warbirds News (Mark Clark)
• Getting Them “Live” - AirCorps Aviation (Jay Wisler)

EDIT (22-05-01): Mr. Clark seems to have been getting a bit more press recently, here's another article about him: Mark Clark: The Highflier - Northwest Quarterly

Last edited by Noha307 on Sun May 01, 2022 9:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[Noha307]

John Smith was already mentioned in a previous post, but bit more background information about him is included on a page in The Story of Nelson Aviation. (I'm glad I stumbled across it too, because with a name like that finding it any other way would be difficult!)

It's worth noting that his collection's somewhat recent move to the Omaka Aviation Heritage Centre was covered in both WIX and WONZ threads as well.

[EW439]

I recommend the forum editor delete the listing of "alleged" warbird personages from this web page. There are more important intellectual issues in aviation history to address than this nonsense.

I could not agree more with you last statement.

[Stephan Wilkinson]

If he hasn;t been mentioned yet, Cole Palen, founder of the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome and as far as I know the country's first serious private collector of WWI aircraft.

[Hooligan2]

In case they've been overlooked; from the UK, Willie Roberts and Strathallan Collection, Peter Thomas and the Skyfame Museum, and Spencer Flack with his Elstree Air Force - all amongst the founding fathers of the "keep 'em flying" attitude to aircraft preservation in the UK.

[Sopwith]

Good call Hooligan, the Skyfame Museum was great.

[Hooligan2]

Skyfame's collection all (or mostly) moved to Duxford by the time my interest started to accelerate!

I probably should have been a bit more formal about Strathallan's founder - Sir William Roberts!

[Noha307]

As mentioned in a recent thread, J.J. "Jack" van Egmond, the man behind the Fokker D.XXI replica and many other projects, was recently knighted by the King of the Netherlands for his contributions to Dutch aviation history.[1]

[JohnB]

About Martin Bowman..

As a former journalist (back when that was a honest profession) I find his apparent lack of transparency in attributing his source documents very regrettable...
However, as someone who has read and enjoyed his works...
especially...
The Wild Blue Yonder, Glory Days of the US Eighth Air Force in England (2003)
And
We're Here to Win the War For You...The U.S. 8th Air Force at War (2009) ...

Allow me to suggest that regardless of his lack of attributuon, he has done Warbird fans/historians a service by assembling, editing (a difficult job if you have ever done any), and producing books that being thesr personal war stories to light.

It seems he tapped into oral or written histories gathered by someone..the lack of attribution suggests a government entity where documents don't have copyright protection.

At the very least the should be thanked for making these stories accessible, they are being read instead of just languishing in a archive out there. One could make the argument that like the proverbial tree falling in the woods, collected history isn't doing anyone much good if no one...or just a few researchets...have access to it.
Through his efforts, people are reading these stories.

I noted on the copyright page of Wild Blue Yonder, it reads
"Martin Bowman has asserted his right to be identified as the author of this work. "

Now Bowman haters, please don't attack me...as I said, his apparent lack of candor is troubling...When I read these books I recall wondering how one person could find the time to collect these stories...but I am merely presenting another viewpoint to the issue.

And as I mentioned before, these stories are well worth reading, I learned a great deal about the personal side of the war that I had long wondered about. Recreation activities, food, sex, interaction with the locals...it is all here.
I haven't found these stories anywhere else, you'd have to buy dozens of veterans biographies and memoirs (and there are a bunch out there of varying quality and availability), to get the details found here.

As such, these books, despite any antagonism towards the "author" (he really should be called the editor, like the people who prepare the writings of historical figures for publication), these books deserve a place on your bookshelf alongside the more technical unit and aircraft histories.

After all, 50 years hence, someone will still be able to write a great "numbers/rivet counter" book on the hardware of the war. But each passing day, with the passing of the people who lived it, we lose the chance to learn about the "real" war.

[Noha307]

One I learned of recently: Norman Chapman[1]