Thoughts/Musings on Colling's Foundation's New B-17 Markings

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:55 pm

Mike Smith of Evergreen (Del's son) was planning to the these markings to compliment the 490th BG markings already on the airplane. With Mike's death these plans
(and a lot of others) were never carried through with. It would be nice if Collings did these to honor both Mike (his wife was Caroline BTW) and the 490th BG.

DH82EH · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:16 am

Nice one Jack. Thanks

Good to see you still check in here from time to time.

Andy

marine air · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:07 am

Carolina Moon has my vote. Not too risque', lots of missions flown, and also like the two women's names above the small windows. Crewmembers girlfriends? Also, there's something magical about matching aircraft or at least squadrons. Matching B-17's would be a first!

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:28 pm

marine air wrote:

Matching B-17's would be a first!

Unless these three B-17s flew in formation...

Rocketeer · **Joined:** Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:16 pm **Posts:** 195

There are literally thousands of great paint schemes representing those who made enormous contributions to our nation with the beloved Flying Fortress. Generally speaking, if you are on this forum, you truly care about the legacy of the men and machines who were involved. We also respect the owners of these machines, and those among us who keep the torches lit for future generations to see.

That being said, there are certain paint schemes/markings that really are better suited than others. As pointed out on the 1st page of this thread - "Outhouse Mouse" had sheet metal features (waist guns & stinger tail) that simply don't match the former Evergreen B-17.

I understand polishing aluminum is often dismissed for an aircraft that is outdoors - however a natural metal finish B-17 with a UNIFORM oxide layer (dull aluminum) would actually be the most authentic appearance for a combat vet B-17G - and would be lower maintenance than paint. (Remember paint cost $$$ - and it still fades)

Considering the demographic these airplanes are being marketed to - having charismatic nose art will best help keep the bills paid.

Best wishes for all here.

Matt Gunsch · **Posted:** Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:15 am

There are plenty of 17's flying in 8th AF markings, I would go for one in 15th AF.

Chris Brame · **Posted:** Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:54 pm

And as usual I'll be that voice in the wilderness that would like to pay homage to the less-heralded instructors and trainees, many of whom gave their lives on American soil.

G models with staggered windows, both camo and NMF, based at Rapid City.
42-38095:

43-37651:

(Not that there's a snowball's chance in he

of that happening, but...)

JimH · **Posted:** Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:18 pm

Paint protects from corrosion, even faded paint. Nine O Nine would be much worse for the wear if it spent 25+ years touring without paint. You have to keep in mind the success of the Wings of Freedom tour relies on aircraft being flyable 10 1/2 months out of the year...every day, seven days a week. The balance of the time is heavy maintenance...not polishing parties. Nine O Nine has needed a paint job for the last 5-6 (that's being kind) years but a balance of down time and tour commitments can not be found.

For the record, I would have loved to have painted Betty Jane as Shangri-La right out of the box...BUT the decision to keep her NMF and Betty Jane did not deter riders...and to be quite frank...people still asked why there were swastikas...if it's an Allison...if it was a redtail...if it was a real Mustang...if the copilot fired the guns...where are the guns...why it doesn't have a bubble. I would like to think that we educated the public to a small degree about the Mustang, but public perception of the smaller picture of the air war is being lost and/or diluted by time and the History Channel. And by smaller, I mean the story of Gentile, Godfrey, Reghetti, Hackleman, Outhouse Mouse, even Nine O Nine...bomber/fighter nose art is an insignificant part of history...it is a B-17 it is a P-51...doesn't matter if has staggered guns or no guns...it's a B-17 it's a Merlin. The Memphis Bell, the Red Tails, and Chuck Yeager won the war. This is a summary of why it is so important to tour, and keep this history at the front of the line...even if the paint schemes or airframes aren't 100% correct. We here at WIX are a minority and in the end it is money that makes airplanes fly.

My .02

Chuck Gardner · **Posted:** Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:13 pm

^What he said!

Dave Hadfield · **Joined:** Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:31 pm **Posts:** 1655

The purpose of warbird paint is to protect the metal, and inspire people to help pay for the running costs.

marine air · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:12 pm

When the EAA brought their second FOrd Tri-motor on line it has natural metal finish. The decision was to keep it that way the first year and then have it painted. Particularly because their takes them down to FLorida all winter. Last, many airplanes with perfect skin have been painted with an ey to the future possibility of going back to polished metal. We had a local P-51 "Sweetie Face" that was restored and painted but the second owner had it stripped and polished. The skin was perfect and it was in a heated hangar.

Firebird · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:28 pm

JimH wrote:

Paint protects from corrosion, even faded paint. Nine O Nine would be much worse for the wear if it spent 25+ years touring without paint. You have to keep in mind the success of the Wings of Freedom tour relies on aircraft being flyable 10 1/2 months out of the year...every day, seven days a week. The balance of the time is heavy maintenance...not polishing parties. Nine O Nine has needed a paint job for the last 5-6 (that's being kind) years but a balance of down time and tour commitments can not be found.

For the record, I would have loved to have painted Betty Jane as Shangri-La right out of the box...BUT the decision to keep her NMF and Betty Jane did not deter riders...and to be quite frank...people still asked why there were swastikas...if it's an Allison...if it was a redtail...if it was a real Mustang...if the copilot fired the guns...where are the guns...why it doesn't have a bubble. I would like to think that we educated the public to a small degree about the Mustang, but public perception of the smaller picture of the air war is being lost and/or diluted by time and the History Channel. And by smaller, I mean the story of Gentile, Godfrey, Reghetti, Hackleman, Outhouse Mouse, even Nine O Nine...bomber/fighter nose art is an insignificant part of history...it is a B-17 it is a P-51...doesn't matter if has staggered guns or no guns...it's a B-17 it's a Merlin. The Memphis Bell, the Red Tails, and Chuck Yeager won the war. This is a summary of why it is so important to tour, and keep this history at the front of the line...even if the paint schemes or airframes aren't 100% correct. We here at WIX are a minority and in the end it is money that makes airplanes fly.

My .02

Absolutely.

What about a satin finish silver paint to reproduce the look of an oxidised NMF bird......?

wendovertom · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:14 pm

Firebird wrote:

JimH wrote:

Paint protects from corrosion, even faded paint. Nine O Nine would be much worse for the wear if it spent 25+ years touring without paint. You have to keep in mind the success of the Wings of Freedom tour relies on aircraft being flyable 10 1/2 months out of the year...every day, seven days a week. The balance of the time is heavy maintenance...not polishing parties. Nine O Nine has needed a paint job for the last 5-6 (that's being kind) years but a balance of down time and tour commitments can not be found.

For the record, I would have loved to have painted Betty Jane as Shangri-La right out of the box...BUT the decision to keep her NMF and Betty Jane did not deter riders...and to be quite frank...people still asked why there were swastikas...if it's an Allison...if it was a redtail...if it was a real Mustang...if the copilot fired the guns...where are the guns...why it doesn't have a bubble. I would like to think that we educated the public to a small degree about the Mustang, but public perception of the smaller picture of the air war is being lost and/or diluted by time and the History Channel. And by smaller, I mean the story of Gentile, Godfrey, Reghetti, Hackleman, Outhouse Mouse, even Nine O Nine...bomber/fighter nose art is an insignificant part of history...it is a B-17 it is a P-51...doesn't matter if has staggered guns or no guns...it's a B-17 it's a Merlin. The Memphis Bell, the Red Tails, and Chuck Yeager won the war. This is a summary of why it is so important to tour, and keep this history at the front of the line...even if the paint schemes or airframes aren't 100% correct. We here at WIX are a minority and in the end it is money that makes airplanes fly.

My .02

Absolutely.

What about a satin finish silver paint to reproduce the look of an oxidised NMF bird......?

I could be wrong here but isn't that how FIFI is? Of course no disrespect intended but I wonder how long "Doc" will stay in polished metal. It seems like that will take a TON of MX hours to maintain on a plane that size. I also wonder if you could polish the skin to bright finish and then Clear Cote it to preserve the shine a little longer.

Tom P.

maxum96 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:48 pm

JimH wrote:

Paint protects from corrosion, even faded paint. Nine O Nine would be much worse for the wear if it spent 25+ years touring without paint. You have to keep in mind the success of the Wings of Freedom tour relies on aircraft being flyable 10 1/2 months out of the year...every day, seven days a week. The balance of the time is heavy maintenance...not polishing parties. Nine O Nine has needed a paint job for the last 5-6 (that's being kind) years but a balance of down time and tour commitments can not be found.

For the record, I would have loved to have painted Betty Jane as Shangri-La right out of the box...BUT the decision to keep her NMF and Betty Jane did not deter riders...and to be quite frank...people still asked why there were swastikas...if it's an Allison...if it was a redtail...if it was a real Mustang...if the copilot fired the guns...where are the guns...why it doesn't have a bubble. I would like to think that we educated the public to a small degree about the Mustang, but public perception of the smaller picture of the air war is being lost and/or diluted by time and the History Channel. And by smaller, I mean the story of Gentile, Godfrey, Reghetti, Hackleman, Outhouse Mouse, even Nine O Nine...bomber/fighter nose art is an insignificant part of history...it is a B-17 it is a P-51...doesn't matter if has staggered guns or no guns...it's a B-17 it's a Merlin. The Memphis Bell, the Red Tails, and Chuck Yeager won the war. This is a summary of why it is so important to tour, and keep this history at the front of the line...even if the paint schemes or airframes aren't 100% correct. We here at WIX are a minority and in the end it is money that makes airplanes fly.

My .02

Spot on! Well said Jim.

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Thoughts/Musings on Colling's Foundation's New B-17 Markings

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