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Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:31 pm 
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thoots wrote:
OD/NG wrote:
thoots wrote:
Here is a bit of more recent news about the Evergreen Museum. The biggest bit is at the very end -- it's looking like the museum will lose its DC-3 and PBY Catalina. The DC-3 would be an absolutely bitter loss -- it was something like the first DC-3 ever sold to a commercial airline.

https://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2018/09/air_museum_landlord_crashes_to.html


Wow, embezzlement, fraud, potential ponzi schemes! What is going on?


What's going on is all about the guy who paid a few million bucks to pay for some part of the museum's many different corporations that went bankrupt, and now his whole empire is going bankrupt. He paid his money, there are no real issues with the museum as such -- the only real problem was that the company he paid to get it out of bankruptcy owned a number of planes, along with various pieces of property. He sold the museum's P-51 Mustang, and some other plane that I'm not aware of "which one it was," but he still owns that DC-3 and the PBY. It sure looks like those planes will get sold away from the museum eventually, and then the only real issue (as far as I understand, and of course I don't know all that much) is about the water park, which the guy owned outright, and wasn't paying the museum what he agreed to pay. I suppose someone else will wind up with that eventually, but it's not so much a part of the museum. All that said, he owns the Space Museum building -- can he sell that? But I don't know so much about that, either -- there are stories like he has leased it back to the museum for a dollar, or something like that.

The main thing that I'm concerned about is what the guy (Downs) has done with "the property he owns," like, for instance, a time during last winter when he rented out most of the Space Museum area to hold some kind of gymnastics meet, whereupon all of the planes and all of the helicopters in that building were moved outside, to sit outside in the rain for several months. In talks I've had with folks who work or volunteer at the museum, things have changed and something like that won't ever happen again, but with the latest developments, it's just the whole uncertainty of everything.

The Museum still has the Spruce Goose and many excellent planes and exhibits to keep the museum full with, and I've heard about plenty of other planes that they can bring in if and when they ever just go get them. So, I'm not too concerned that the museum won't still have a bunch of interesting planes and such to go check out. Moving different planes into the museum is usually a good thing -- it's just that the ones that get rotated out aren't coming back. But, most of the planes that have left have gone to the Collings Foundation, which bailed one of the other companies associated with the museum out of bankruptcy, and those will eventually be flying around -- and hopefully they will fly back some day. Really, the only thing that has bothered me has been this Downs guy -- I had no idea that he actually got some planes in the deal, and with his money troubles, those are assets that aren't very likely to be around much longer.

At any rate, given my limited knowledge about things, that's the perspective I've got.

Thanks for the clarification and information! I hope everything works out up there without too much pain.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:23 am 
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Here's something I stumbled upon regarding the B-17 that has left EASM:

https://fireaviation.com/2018/09/02/for ... ssissippi/

thoots


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:32 am 
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One thing is for sure, the Hughes Hercules isn't going anywhere...it's a non-flying white elephant that would cost too much to move.

Worse case scenario...it will be there along with the loaned modern military aircraft like the Blackbird...and loaned/donated antique civil types and the former Evergeen types with clear titles (or they're not worth creditors going after).

Anyone know if the helicopter collection (assembled by a rotary wing operator in Oregon whose name I can't recall) is on loan or what it donated or purchased by the museum?I

It's a nice facility...too bad about the money & legal issues.
Overall am I shocked? No, it seems aviation has always had a few operators with questionable financial resources and practices.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:30 am 
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JohnB wrote:
One thing is for sure, the Hughes Hercules isn't going anywhere...it's a non-flying white elephant that would cost too much to move.

Worse case scenario...it will be there along with the loaned modern military aircraft like the Blackbird...and loaned/donated antique civil types and the former Evergreen types with clear titles (or they're not worth creditors going after).

Anyone know if the helicopter collection (assembled by a rotary wing operator in Oregon whose name I can't recall) is on loan or what it donated or purchased by the museum?I

It's a nice facility...too bad about the money & legal issues.


A few thoughts:

1. Indeed, the "Spruce Goose" is fully owned by the museum, and it fits into a pit that was built into the museum building -- indeed, the building was "built around" the plane. There is no chance that it will go anywhere else, anytime soon.

2. I would say that "every museum," but perhaps it's safer to say that "most museums" have some combination of exhibits that are owned by the museum, and some that are owned by others, and loaned to the museum. It is a fact of life in the museum "industry," and it probably always will. And a museum simply cannot control the exhibits that are owned by other people -- the owners can remove their property, simple as that. But EASM (Evergreen Air and Space Museum) will continue to go on -- I doubt it will go away, at least not in my lifetime. As for the money, essentially the museum "rents" the space in the buildings now, as other people actually own the buildings. But, in general, people who want to see the museum stay there and thrive have bought the buildings in bankruptcy sales, and I think that will continue, even if those people who now own the buildings might even get into financial difficulties. As for the planes, what have gone away might well be of the most interest to folks in this forum -- World War II "warbirds" -- but losing them, even including the B-17, haven't "made even the slightest dent" in the museum's ability to fill the buildings with interesting planes and other exhibits. For instance, the museum has the entire "Century Series" of jet fighter aircraft, many of which are now in the main museum as part of a new "Vietnam War" exhibit. Essentially, the WWII warbirds have been replaced with Vietnam-era jet fighters and helicopters.

3. But the Vietnam War exhibit is indeed filled with mostly "loaned" aircraft -- most from the National Museum of the United States Air Force, or other military museums. I'm not too worried that those will go away anytime soon.

4. I can check on the helicopters, but I expect most of them have been loaned to the museum. Still, it's a pretty amazing bunch of rotary aircraft, including a lot of crazy-odd Hiller contraptions, along with some really significant helicopters that show the history of rotary flight. But again, I doubt that there's much of any risk that any of the helicopters might go away.

5. In the end, I suppose the financial troubles all go back to the museum's expansion, when they built the Space museum building, the IMAX theater building, the waterpark building, and some other facilities. And then Evergreen International Aviation went out of business, then its founder, owner, and CEO, Del Smith, passed away -- and it has been shown that Mr. Smith and his company was perhaps "the financial glue" that kept everything going over at the museum. And while there is a lot of relief that the museum is now operating properly under non-profit laws and such, the fact is that they are now "tenants," and subject to their relationships with "landlords." It certainly can't be the best way for a museum to go about its business, but if the landlords come and go and sell the buildings to others, those buildings aren't really "good for anything else other than hosting an aviation museum." So, in the end, I certainly believe that the museum will continue to operate pretty much as it always has, but like any renter, it will live with a certain amount of uncertainty, since it "doesn't own its home."

I certainly enjoy the museum, I have been a member for most of the time it has been in existence, and I fully intend to keep on supporting it by keeping my membership going. I usually wind up going over there at least a couple of times per month -- why not spend a day at the museum, as opposed to sitting around the house, watching TV? Or wasting hours, yammering along in some Internet forums? :P

Let me end this with a little experience I had at the museum the other day. I was leaving the Space Museum building, and I was talking with the volunteer docents there about going back over to the "Aviation Museum building, or whatever it's called." And they all chimed in, "We just call it the Air." As in the museum's official name -- the Evergreen Air and Space Museum. They are "Space," the others are "Air." Works for me.


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