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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:41 am 
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Well, the loss of a few WWII warbirds doesn't really "gut" the Evergreen museum, by any means. If anything, the museum had become a bit "stale," without much of any changes to the aircraft on display for years on end. And I'll agree with anyone that the best destiny for an airplane is to fly, so I just hope to see these planes return some day, in flight.

The museum certainly changed things around over the past few days, though -- it's an interesting display. Now that things are relatively put into place, I see that they haven't so much "moved the home-built airplanes out of the museum building" as they have scattered them around the museum floor -- at the very least, you don't walk into a sea of home-built planes when you walk onto the museum floor anymore.

The museum's current "Wingspan" magazine just hit online, with news that folks from the museum will be heading down to Arizona to pick up three aircraft: An F-16 Fighting Falcon, an F-111 Aardvark, and a Panavia Tornado, apparently sometime in October. The museum has also been working on a new exhibit in the mezzanine above the main museum, so that will be another change for some space that has been under-utilized for years. And so on.

In regards to the Museum of Flight, I've been a member there for years, and it is an excellent museum. Actually, both museums are part of the ASTC Passport Program, so a membership in one museum will get you into the other for free, as well as hundreds of other museums across the country. But what probably brings people to the Evergreen museum is indeed the Spruce Goose -- I guess I'm completely jaded about the plane, given how I pop over there every week or two. Evergreen also has the Space Museum with the helicopters also on display -- there is a lot to see and do throughout Evergreen's campus.

At any rate, they are bringing some of the planes that have been outside into the museum -- I watched them clean up the F-100 yesterday, though I sure don't know exactly where they're going to put it once they're done. Overall, I'm rather glad to see the different planes in the museum, and how they have moved them around, rather than standing around moaning that a few planes have left.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:48 am 
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Saw on Facebook that the B-17 flew out of Oregon yesterday, headed for Collings Foundation's Headquarters in Massachusetts.

https://www.facebook.com/collings.found ... lM&fref=nf

- Dennis S.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:41 am 
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Well, that's great to hear the airplane got off and is heading east. Unless something big has changed, it is on an FAA ferry permit to New Smyrna, Florida, for heavy maintenance. Once in Florida, it will be grounded again for up to eighteen months for that work. At least that's what the Collings Foundation was saying this past week.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:58 pm 
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You're correct Scott, my error. She's headed to Florida (probably has already arrived at this point).

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:30 pm 
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Dennis7423 wrote:
Saw on Facebook that the B-17 flew out of Oregon yesterday

A sad day.

Saw her three times in the last 6 months. Recently, July 28th & August 1st, outside and behind Evergreen's hanger at the McMinnville airport.

I really enjoy the WWII types and Captain Michael King Smith complex is definitely one first class operation. I especially enjoyed staring at the '109's highly detailed engine. I am warming up to the "Cold War" and "Gulf War" types... but it is not the same. Glad to see they have a few left... The continuation serial number ME262 is always nice to look at.

The museum is very community oriented.

It offers educational and classroom facilities. I took a week of technology classes there through OCSTA (Oregon Computer Science Teachers Association) a few years back. You never get tired of staring at the scenery through the upstairs classroom windows or having lunch under the wing of a SR71 Blackbird.

Oregon Heavy Lift Helicopter Consortium (Erickson Aircrane, Columbia, Crowman, Evergreen Helicopter, Carson, Swanson, and Helicopter Transport Services) sometimes holds seminars under the tail of the H-4.

Not every museum can boast of having a 747 sitting on the roof of the community swimming pool with 4 water slides popping out of the sides of the plane. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5Bk0Oo_Lg4

I guess that I am still smarting from Collings acquisition and relocation of the bulk of the Jacques Littlefield collection (snagged before I had a chance to see it... it was about 50 miles from where I worked in the mid-2000s... Grumble... Grumble).

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:26 am 
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She made to Florida. Hope to go up and get pictures in the next week or so.

https://floridawarbirds.wordpress.com/2 ... -services/


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:25 am 
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Looks like the B-17 suffered some damage to the nose section. I'd assume it was Hurricane related. Anyone have any additional information? There is a photo on Facebook showing a damaged chin turret and a tarp over the nose.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... ater&ifg=1

I'm sure American Aero and the Collings Foundation will get her fixed.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:43 pm 
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Here is an article about the financial situation of Steve Down, whose company "saved" the Evergreen Aviation and Space Museum by purchasing rights during a bankruptcy sale:

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/inde ... r_home_pop


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:00 pm 
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I am not sure of the guy's background but 6-8 million for the Mustang and Corsair (and 10 Million in flying condition) seems high. Please correct me, educate me etc if so.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:50 am 
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eallen wrote:
I am not sure of the guy's background but 6-8 million for the Mustang and Corsair (and 10 Million in flying condition) seems high. Please correct me, educate me etc if so.

That is way too high, imo. That would mean both the Mustang and Corsair would sell for $ 5 Million a piece, if flyable. I don't recall any Corsair or Mustang selling for that price - at least what is publicly known.

Even the most authentically restored and accurate Corsair flying in the world at present, Olympia Air Museum's example, is still "on the market" after some time, for $ 4.1 Million with no buyer:

http://www.platinumfighters.com/fg1dn72nw

All of the major players in the warbird world who can afford a $ 5 Million Corsair already have one - Paul Allen, Rod Lewis, Friedkin Family, etc. Not that I have any inside information at all, but I've never seen a Corsair with such a high asking price. That tells me that $ 4 to $ 5 Million is too high for an award winning fresh Corsair restoration for the current market. Unless somebody mysteriously comes up with Boyington's Corsair with documented history, or a "birdcage" F4U-1, I don't see one selling any time soon for that much.

Same with the Mustang. I've never seen one with an asking price that exceeded approximately $ 4 Million. The actual selling price is another matter entirely, and in most cases is less than the asking price - just like a house.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:53 pm 
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OD/NG wrote:
Even the most authentically restored and accurate Corsair flying in the world at present, Olympia Air Museum's example...


Not that it adds anything to this discussion, but I have to say that the title for the most accurate/authentic Corsair flying today must be now the Paul Allen/FHCAM Corsair. It's the only one I know of that is said to still have the correct/original WWII-era engine and supercharger setup, and even the paint on it is lacquer-based, per original, with the distinct look of the original overall glossy sea blue finish and non-specular sea blue anti-glare (and it doesn't have all the fasteners "blinged-out" either). :D


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:08 pm 
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JohnTerrell wrote:
OD/NG wrote:
Even the most authentically restored and accurate Corsair flying in the world at present, Olympia Air Museum's example...


Not that it adds anything to this discussion, but I have to say that the title for the most accurate/authentic Corsair flying today must be now the Paul Allen/FHCAM Corsair. It's the only one I know of that is said to still have the correct/original WWII-era engine and supercharger setup, and even the paint on it is lacquer-based, per original, with the distinct look of the original overall glossy sea blue finish and non-specular sea blue anti-glare (and it doesn't have all the fasteners "blinged-out" either). :D

Good point and thanks for correcting me! Maybe I should have said, "Arguably, even the most authentically restored and accurate Corsair....". I forgot about that one. I haven't seen Paul Allen's example in person, but I've seen Olympia's and it is impressive to say the least. John Lane, is, imo, the world's foremost expert on Corsairs. All of the restorations coming out of his shop are impressive, to say the least. And he is a very nice guy to boot, willing to talk to "nobody" warbird fans such as myself. I'm a big fan of John Lane and his shop!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:51 pm 
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Here is a bit of more recent news about the Evergreen Museum. The biggest bit is at the very end -- it's looking like the museum will lose its DC-3 and PBY Catalina. The DC-3 would be an absolutely bitter loss -- it was something like the first DC-3 ever sold to a commercial airline.

https://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2018/09/air_museum_landlord_crashes_to.html


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:54 pm 
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thoots wrote:
Here is a bit of more recent news about the Evergreen Museum. The biggest bit is at the very end -- it's looking like the museum will lose its DC-3 and PBY Catalina. The DC-3 would be an absolutely bitter loss -- it was something like the first DC-3 ever sold to a commercial airline.

https://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2018/09/air_museum_landlord_crashes_to.html


Wow, embezzlement, fraud, potential ponzi schemes! What is going on?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:53 pm 
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OD/NG wrote:
thoots wrote:
Here is a bit of more recent news about the Evergreen Museum. The biggest bit is at the very end -- it's looking like the museum will lose its DC-3 and PBY Catalina. The DC-3 would be an absolutely bitter loss -- it was something like the first DC-3 ever sold to a commercial airline.

https://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2018/09/air_museum_landlord_crashes_to.html


Wow, embezzlement, fraud, potential ponzi schemes! What is going on?


What's going on is all about the guy who paid a few million bucks to pay for some part of the museum's many different corporations that went bankrupt, and now his whole empire is going bankrupt. He paid his money, there are no real issues with the museum as such -- the only real problem was that the company he paid to get it out of bankruptcy owned a number of planes, along with various pieces of property. He sold the museum's P-51 Mustang, and some other plane that I'm not aware of "which one it was," but he still owns that DC-3 and the PBY. It sure looks like those planes will get sold away from the museum eventually, and then the only real issue (as far as I understand, and of course I don't know all that much) is about the water park, which the guy owned outright, and wasn't paying the museum what he agreed to pay. I suppose someone else will wind up with that eventually, but it's not so much a part of the museum. All that said, he owns the Space Museum building -- can he sell that? But I don't know so much about that, either -- there are stories like he has leased it back to the museum for a dollar, or something like that.

The main thing that I'm concerned about is what the guy (Downs) has done with "the property he owns," like, for instance, a time during last winter when he rented out most of the Space Museum area to hold some kind of gymnastics meet, whereupon all of the planes and all of the helicopters in that building were moved outside, to sit outside in the rain for several months. In talks I've had with folks who work or volunteer at the museum, things have changed and something like that won't ever happen again, but with the latest developments, it's just the whole uncertainty of everything.

The Museum still has the Spruce Goose and many excellent planes and exhibits to keep the museum full with, and I've heard about plenty of other planes that they can bring in if and when they ever just go get them. So, I'm not too concerned that the museum won't still have a bunch of interesting planes and such to go check out. Moving different planes into the museum is usually a good thing -- it's just that the ones that get rotated out aren't coming back. But, most of the planes that have left have gone to the Collings Foundation, which bailed one of the other companies associated with the museum out of bankruptcy, and those will eventually be flying around -- and hopefully they will fly back some day. Really, the only thing that has bothered me has been this Downs guy -- I had no idea that he actually got some planes in the deal, and with his money troubles, those are assets that aren't very likely to be around much longer.

At any rate, given my limited knowledge about things, that's the perspective I've got.


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