Warbird Information Exchange

Just curious, how many of you have seen the details of the deal the CAF reached with the city of Dallas?

From the CAF website:



How many people were employed by the CAF in Midland at it's peak?
Has the CAF ever had 40 full time employees?

Bryan - yes, the CAF has had more than 40 employees in the past, specifically in Harlingen when HQ was there. I don't find these employee numbers in the document you posted to be out of line for the new site. That's about as much as I can say but hope that helps answer your question.

Randy

P.S. In Harlingen, the "museum" was not a separate organization yet, so employees for the "museum" were included as CAF but still a small number. We also had a larger publications and maintenance staff. When the CAF moved to Midland, the museum became it's own affiliated organization and the total number of employees of both may have exceeded 35-40 in the early days of Midland. This is from memory of being there and I don't have a way to check that at the moment.

The line that I found interesting was the promise to have 14 aircraft and maintenance equipment permanently based at the Airbase. I suppose all the aircraft from the DFW area wings will end up there, but does that equal 14? If not then it would appear that other units will be losing aircraft....

The line that I found interesting was the promise to have 14 aircraft and maintenance equipment permanently based at the Airbase. I suppose all the aircraft from the DFW area wings will end up there, but does that equal 14? If not then it would appear that other units will be losing aircraft....

Thanks for the quick reply Randy,
Can you share how many aircraft (Flyers) were attached to HQ when they moved to Midland in 1991?
Any idea what the membership numbers were in those days?

Aircraft 4 with the Dallas fort worth wing?
red tail
Is the p-40 is based in the Dallas?
A-26 in Dallas
4 with b24/b-29 + pt-17, C-45
I think the plan is to restore the p-47 as a Mexican Aztec Eagle and tour like Red Tail
How many tora tora aircraft are based around Dallas?

The Headquarters contact list shows 20 staff now Plus 4 museum staff and one or two paid by the B-24/B-29 sqd

Looks like they are almost to 14 with what they have in place...

At the risk of sounding politically incorrect, why would they paint the P-47N in Mexican colors? Did the Mexican's ever even use the N-model? Aren't there a bunch of American P-47N pilots that could be honored?

IMHO if the CAF wants to be taken seriously as a museum representing true WWII history then they need to start taking seriously the historical accuracy of many of their fleet.... I will put my flame suit on now....

If the Mexican govt. wants to pay to have it restored and painted in MAF markings fine. If they want to sponsor it for a large sum of money and have it do a MAF Heritage flight program for a couple million dollars a year, great. It would be self sustaining. In lieu of that, it needs to be painted to achieve the highest recognition, crowd appeal and paid appearances. IMHO.

Judging from Red Tail has done, with a significant Latino population here in Texas, I can totally see a P-47 doing really well in that role.

_________________
Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

At the very real risk of alienating the non-Latino population with a transparent attempt at pandering that market segment.

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Lest Hero-worship raise it's head and cloud our vision, remember that World War II was fought and won by the same sort of twenty-something punks we wouldn't let our daughters date.

Nah. I don't think that Red Tail has had that effect. All the other birds are still "white boy" birds. Besides, there are a lot of white folks who aren't racist who are interested in more diversity as well, myself included.

_________________
Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

Folks, let me just say that in my opinion, much of the discussion in this thread of aircraft to be based at the new National Air Base is speculation based on various ideas or suggestions that came up in prior and continuing planning sessions or discussions. The P-47N was once discussed and the 201 markings were once mentioned. The aircraft is currently listed for assignment, meaning it is available for a CAF unit or sponsor group to bid on it with a good plan for getting it restored to airworthy condition in a reasonable time frame. If that doesn't happen, then there could be a plan B at some time.

As for the question of how many planes moved from Harlingen to Midland, I can't offer a solid answer, as most of my CAF paperwork and Dispatch magazines, which had a lot of info about that move, are packed in temporary storage due to home renovations. If you have a Dispatch magazine from the late 1989 to early 1991 time period, you may find some of that info. I can tell you that in both Harlingen and the first several years in Midland, there was an aircraft rotation policy, whereby significant CAF aircraft types assigned to CAF units all over the U.S. would fly to the current CAF HQ for display, typically for about three months. As avgas and other costs rose, and the planes were more involved in the rides program, etc. this became more difficult to do and the rotation on a regular basis stopped some years ago. This is not to say that some of the bombers, fighters and other planes don't still come out to Midland for special events and AIRSHO.

Today there are more flying aircraft on display in the main CAF hangar at Midland than in recent years, due to the local High Sky Wing's (HSW) decision earlier this year to move their flight and maintenance operations there from another hangar. This also increased the number of CAF members in the hangar many days, especially on Saturdays, and visitors often have a chance to watch aircraft taking off on training or other flights or undergoing restoration or regular maintenance. A number of local HSW members who own their own warbirds also base them full or part time in that hangar, further increasing the planes on display and often operating.

Also, the HSW has returned a CAF C-45/SNB Twin Beech to operations and is offering rides to CAF Museum visitors in it and a couple of other Wing assigned planes. I hope this info is helpful even though it is not all about the National Air Base. I really can't comment much more on that subject until many plans are finalized. Fly safe.

Randy

[/quote]
Nah. I don't think that Red Tail has had that effect. All the other birds are still "white boy" birds. Besides, there are a lot of white folks who aren't racist who are interested in more diversity as well, myself included.[/quote]

Ryan: I hope you aren't insinuating that those who may question this decision are in any way racist. My objection has nothing to do with race, but the fact that I always understood the primary mission of the CAF to promote US aircraft and veterans. Additionally, AAF fighters in the Pacific Theater are already overlooked in the warbird movement. (exception being AVG P-40s .

The Red Tail group is clearly a US unit and an unrecognized one for many years and deserves the publicity...just as ANY other US unit does.

The Mexicans have a few P-47Ds in there own country. I would applaud them if they restored one to flight to recognize their groups contributions to the war effort.

At the same time I wouldn't be inclined to support the CAF restoring their aircraft in the markings of the 201st (especially given it is an N-model). But then again, it isn't my money that will restore it.

And yes, I am aware there are other CAF aircraft in Allied paint ...the atrocious Wildcat for starters....

Not racist, culturist perhaps, nationalist certainly. The Red Tails were operationally significant unit, but more importantly, a culturally and historically significant American unit.

OTOH, the entire FAM contribution to combat in WWII is, to put it mildly, insignificant. The CAP had more combat sorties, with greater success.

To mark up the wrong model P-47 in Mexican markings would be blatant pandering, and in the current political situation would probably face more of a backlash than it would any positive reaction.

To really highlight an obscure, and much more active participant, there is always Força Aérea Brasileira.

_________________
Lest Hero-worship raise it's head and cloud our vision, remember that World War II was fought and won by the same sort of twenty-something punks we wouldn't let our daughters date.

Well, the way I see it that would fit the Confedera... er Commemorative Air Force's decision making over the last decade - moving to make their image more mainstream and appealing to more people. I'm cool with American markings on the P-47, too, but I can see that from a marketing standpoint they might get some mileage out of it. And no, I'm not insinuating racism Tim, but I do see tones of it that creep up at times in things such as the comment I quoted. Face it, where I'm from the Latino population is a majority, not a minority, and getting hispanic kids excited about warbirds in this country wouldn't be bad for the movement.

_________________
Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.