Warbird Information Exchange

After reading all the posts in this thread, 1) I feel for the St. Paul group, the loss of being the red tail care givers will not be easy to forget. 2) This whole thing strikes me as the same sort of thing the Air Force Museum in Dayton pulled on the CAF to grab a certain F-82, and from what I remember, that caused quite a stir. 3) looks like the CAF HQ has taken lessons handed down by the Dayton boys!

Leon

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Phormer Phantom Painter

Any way you look at it, its not good PR for caf.

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Hang The Expense

No, it is not like that at all. The St Paul group was not trying to sell/trade the airplane to another party where the title history was ambiguous. In this case who owns the airplane was very clear, HQ. They wanted it in TX, and they had the resources to fund/take care of the winter maintenance, which I understand from these posts was the rationale behind the move.

I agree with all the comments - both pro and con. But as CH2Tdriver says: "and they had the resources to fund/take care of the winter maintenance, which I understand from these posts was the rationale behind the move." Reminds one of the golden rule - he who has the gold, rules.

Somewhat poignant for me in Chicago where the local CAF Squadron essentially no longer operates: We had a C-47 and the JU-52. But we had no gold and thus, today, no aircraft.

Good discussion. Thanks.

CH2TDriver,

I don’t know where you got your information or how you arrived at the conclusion you did but it is in fact completely off the mark. This had nothing to do with resources available to take care of the airplane. In fact the group is very financially successful and has always maintained the airplane in impeccable condition. While the crew size was small, it was highly talented and very effective with most having many years of Mustang experience predating involvement in the Red Tail Squadron. Interestingly enough, there is no support for the airplane in Dallas. MX will be carried out for the foreseeable future at AirCorp Aviation in Bemidji, MN.

All who said it was the CAF’s asset to do with as they please are correct. However, the airplane was removed from our care based on the limited time given to us as a volunteer crew to complete inspections. The timeframe was dictated by the desire of the CAF HQ to promote their new Dallas Airbase and show Dallas political leaders the CAF is making good on its promise to bring educational programs to the area. This in part will help ensure the stream of taxpayers’ dollars continues to head their direction as written in the deal between the city and the CAF.

Again, none of us have any real big issues that HQ sequestered the Mustang from our care. We do however have MAJOR issues with how they did it, basically ignoring the transparency and interaction in the proceedings that were promised.

Again, we will always speak highly of the Red Tail Squadron and its mission. We also wish the CAF well in its bid to build the new DAB. They will simply have to do it without our support…they closed that door when they treated us like second class citizens.

John

John,

Thank you and your crew and most involved with the Red Tail for all of the hard word and dedication. Doesn't mean anything coming from me, but many thousands have benefited by enjoying the mustang. If it weren't for guys like you that thing would still be sitting in the corner with its wings sawn off. I've seen it happen many times, there's always a line when it comes time to fly, but the restoration/maintenance isn't always appreciated for the monumental task it is.

You've certainly taken the high road. I wish the CAF well also but like others I've moved to other organizations that are also deserving of my limited contributions. Yes the airplane's are cool and need to be taken care of for the long term, BUT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT HONORING AND RESPECTING THE PEOPLE, THE MEN AND WOMEN THAT SERVED AND SACRIFICED and I think that extends to the people that continue to do so. There are different approaches to accomplishing any goal. my approach would have been different so I've moved elsewhere. I hope the new organizational structure works.

Chunks

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Jack McDonnel

T-6/SNJ Hoarder

"The plans for Red Tail, so far as I know, will be business as usual touring the country, very likely at an increased pace with more stops. To be fair, I saw trouble coming (Not the DAB trouble we’re discussing) as far back as the spring of 2012 when the MX crew was getting pushed harder and harder to keep up with the demands placed on us by the aircrafts’ increasingly busy and growing schedule. We were in the process of dealing with that. Skip ahead to a week or so ago when we were asked to perform all of the airplanes “Off season” needs in well less than 60 days which included the upcoming holidays. There is no way that’s possible for a member driven, all-volunteer crew. Our hands were forced at that point. End of my public elaboration regarding the subject.

In Red Tail’s case, there is no infrastructure in place in Dallas to care for it. AirCorp Aviation has been contracted to perform the winter maintenance on it this year"

This.

Resources as in manpower/volunteers. (I meant 'fund' as in HQ was going to pay for MX rather than rely on volleys. I didn't mean it in the respect that your wing lacked the funds.)

I see what you’re saying now. The interesting part is, in so much as airplanes maintenance and operations, CAF HQ will remain very much hands off; The sponsor group/squadron is still in control of the airplanes MX and scheduling its appearances as it always has been, that includes funding it. This is true for all CAF unit held aircraft, which Red Tail is. In previous years there were times when it didn’t make sense to bring the airplane back to base so I/we hired experienced, trusted shops to do the work for us. Other than the obvious cost implications of this option verses volunteer labor, it worked well. As the sponsor group drove the airplanes appearances schedule tighter and tighter, it effectively removed the volunteer based MX program from relevance. There could have been some minor concessions that would have enabled the MX team to continue to support the Squadron but were not pursued with an open mind. In the end, the overwhelming success it’s enjoying today is a testament to the Squadrons hard worked for success over the last 10 years and proof that the message it’s delivering is of value to the public. Again, the team’s only heartburn over this is how it all transpired and the way the message was delivered to us.

John