Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:53 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:09 am 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!

Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:31 pm
Posts: 1650
If a Great Lakes crash aircraft lies below the zebra mussel zone, it's metal may be still pretty good.

But above that, the metal will only of value for historical/documentary purposes. Worthless as a machine.

I think the great treasure trove of WWII aircraft is in the Black Sea. The deep parts there are anoxic.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:35 pm
Posts: 258
Location: california
there is rumored to be a RAF 4 engine bomber in lake simcoe,ontario CN....I sonar scaned some of the lake to no avail, we've heard rumors of a few local divers knowing its location and rumors of them bringing up suveniers but still no more details....heard it broke thru the ice after landing, there are a few other crashes in simcoe,but only fatalities so bunches of twisted metal covered in zebra mussles....found a really intach frigget with tall masts and ropes still intach when we were there...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:14 pm
Posts: 668
Location: Aerodrome of Democracy
camshaw wrote:
there is rumored to be a RAF 4 engine bomber in lake simcoe,ontario CN....I sonar scaned some of the lake to no avail, we've heard rumors of a few local divers knowing its location and rumors of them bringing up suveniers but still no more details....heard it broke thru the ice after landing, there are a few other crashes in simcoe,but only fatalities so bunches of twisted metal covered in zebra mussles....found a really intach frigget with tall masts and ropes still intach when we were there...


FYI , Ken E passed away over a year ago

_________________
...it was a plane adrift beneath the moon moving serenely thru beams like an angel of the night .....fair as a song ........aloof from mortal dreams


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:14 pm
Posts: 668
Location: Aerodrome of Democracy
camshaw wrote:
there is rumored to be a RAF 4 engine bomber in lake simcoe,ontario CN....I sonar scaned some of the lake to no avail, we've heard rumors of a few local divers knowing its location and rumors of them bringing up suveniers but still no more details....heard it broke thru the ice after landing, there are a few other crashes in simcoe,but only fatalities so bunches of twisted metal covered in zebra mussles....found a really intach frigget with tall masts and ropes still intach when we were there...


The aircraft was located by a dive team that was hired by a Recovery Group.
It was raised with air balloons but kept below the surface . The divers then tried to re-negotiate their fee and the Recovery Team rejected this.
It was then moved to a hidden location in the lake where it is rumoured to still be sitting.

_________________
...it was a plane adrift beneath the moon moving serenely thru beams like an angel of the night .....fair as a song ........aloof from mortal dreams


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:14 pm
Posts: 668
Location: Aerodrome of Democracy
The Blackburn Shark in the water in Canada would be a really rare one to recover

_________________
...it was a plane adrift beneath the moon moving serenely thru beams like an angel of the night .....fair as a song ........aloof from mortal dreams


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:35 pm
Posts: 258
Location: california
yes cam you told me about ken, loved that guy, what a nice man........had alot of laughs with him.....thats good to hear about the lanc being found....the mussles in simcoe were bad, but still an awesome story for sure!....somebody needs to find the p51 we searched for!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:26 pm 
Offline
Been here a long time
Been here a long time

Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am
Posts: 11276
Chris Brame wrote:
From another thread about a year and a half ago:
Chris Brame wrote:
And a few more possibles from the Chicago Tribune:

Probable T-6 (ed. note: civilian), April 27, 1948, about 500 yards off Washington Park in Wilmette (2 fatal, plane ditched and sank, pilot and passenger were seen to get out but rescuers couldn't reach them in time).



http://news.wilmettelibrary.info/1695892/data?n=103

Quote:
The body of Lewis Sherman III of Milwaukee washed up from Lake Michigan at the foot of Hamilton street, Evanston, on Saturday. Mr. Sherman was killed after his plane crashed into the lake off Washington park, Wilmette, on Tuesday, April 27 [1948].


http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1948 ... ks-in-lake

Wealthy 28-year-old Milwaukee executive Lewis Sherman III based the plane at Maitland Field in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He was a vice-president in the Jewett & Sherman Co., prominent coffee roasters.

I have been unable to figure out what kind of plane it was that he ditched. It appears that he was actually alone in the plane.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:29 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:02 am
Posts: 4606
Location: Yucca Valley, CA
My best guess from the article was that it was an AT-6:
Quote:
"low-wing monoplane"
"The ATC plane is a type used as a trainer by the air forces, and many have been sold to private pilots as war surplus."

_________________
Image
All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:25 pm 
Offline
Been here a long time
Been here a long time

Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am
Posts: 11276
Chris Brame wrote:
My best guess from the article was that it was an AT-6:
Quote:
"low-wing monoplane"
"The ATC plane is a type used as a trainer by the air forces, and many have been sold to private pilots as war surplus."

Sounds like a good guess. The ATC was probably a typo from AT-6. If not for that, it could have been a BT-13 or even a PT-19.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:51 pm 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:00 pm
Posts: 2128
Location: Utah
The B-25 in Spring Bay will be long gone as the Northern end of the Great Salt Lake is especially salty (more than 5% and the ocean is about 3.5%).

Tom P.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 9:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:35 pm
Posts: 258
Location: california
keep this list going folks...we need more recoveries,time is ticking...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:35 am
Posts: 1
The last entry for Tom Grafmiller is my mom's husband's plane. He nor the F-86 were ever located, but believed to be in Lake Huron from what she has said and the news articles that I have seen.

Can't find any fresh water F-86A/E/F or H, but here are three F-86Ds:

52-4182 - 62nd FIS; w/o 10Oct56 in Lake Michigan, 47 miles NE of Milwaukee, WI after mid-air with 52-4194, Capt Carlton Ova Berry ejected but body not found

52-4194 - 62nd FIS; w/o 10Oct56 in Lake Michigan, 47 miles NE of Milwaukee, WI after mid-air with 52-4182, 2/Lt Kenneth Richard Hughes ejected and picked up after 3 hours in water

53-735 - 1st FIW; w/o 26Sep59, disappeared over Lake Huron, 1/Lt Jay T. Grafmiller (killed/missing?)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:21 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:18 am
Posts: 1573
Location: Northwest Ohio
dirtysidedown430 wrote:
B 25 ran out of fuel trying to make landing at Allegheny Co airport ditched in Mon River down stream of Braddock Pa just missing the Homestead High Level bridge. 2 killed 3 swam to shore think 1957. Bodies airplane never found big local legend to this day.


2 rumors surrounding this plane ; 1) militaty went in under cover of darkness and salvaged sensitive equipment and then sank a barge on top of it 2) the current was stronger than expected and the plane is way further west from where the search was conducted.

_________________
A&P/I.A., A.A.S./Aviation Maintenance technology
Warbird salvage/recovery
One day I'll get that P-40!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:50 pm
Posts: 743
Location: Blue Hills of Virginia
B-29 Lady of the Lake in AK is actually a B-50 that was doing weather recon when it had a gear collapse on landing at EielsonAFB. Some VIP was coming for a visit so the plane was stripped of anything usable and pushed into the lake by a bulldozer. Can't remember what year or any other particulars as it has been more than 35 years since I first laid eyes on her. She was in very bad condition with thousands of bullet holes from target shooters when I saw her, so I am sure she is none the better now.

_________________
Earn my respect and never lose it.
Demand my respect and never gain it. -Me

...just another plane dreamer.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:20 pm
Posts: 146
There is speculation that a B-29 (s/n 44-61721) ended up in Red Lake in Northern Minnesota, on 15 July 1945, although it has never been located. The crew bailed out at 9,500 ft (at night) due to a fuel leak in the aircraft after taking off from Duluth. The flight engineer was unconscious at the time bail out was ordered, but he was pushed out the hatch and landed safely. The crew was recovered near Big Fork, MN, slightly more than half way between Duluth and Red Lake. The crew stated the aircraft was on autopilot on a heading that would have it heading towards Montana.

http://minnesotabrown.com/2014/03/70-year-mystery-skies-itasca-county.html

http://ww2f.com/threads/b-29-disappears-after-crew-bales-out-1945.48637/

I spoke with a gentleman (Richard G. King) who was to have crewed that aircraft out of Pyote, TX, but his aircraft commander refused to take the airplane due to a previously squawked fuel leak. Richard was a central fire control gunner on -29's and commented that the autopilot was not an altitude holding autopilot. He also pointed out that bail out from the B-29 was accomplished by exiting through a hatch that required dropping the nose gear. If the autopilot was a pitch hold type system, it might not be unreasonable that the additional drag of the nose gear hanging down induced a slow rate of descent that the autopilot would not have compensated for.

Lower Red Lake is ~66 Nm from the location where some of the crew were recovered. If the aircraft continued on at 200 mph, it would have required a rate of descent of ~360 ft/min to descend from 9,500 ft MSL at Napoleon Lake (location where one crew member was recovered) to 1,200 ft MSL at Red Lake (approximate altitude of Red Lake).

This accident is listed on this Wikipedia page (see 15 July 1945);

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_military_aircraft_(1945%E2%80%931949)

I'm not familiar with the B-29 autopilot, so I have no idea if this is a reasonable theory or not. Otherwise, the B-29 could be in the mountains/woods of Montana or Canada, or who knows where...

_________________
Greenville Flyers: The Legacy of Allied Pilots Who Flew at Greenville Army Airfield


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Archer, corsairfan, Google Adsense [Bot] and 90 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group