Biplane crash at Thunder Over Solano Airshow

marine air · **Posted:** Sat May 17, 2014 10:30 am

Two thoughts
1) I remember when my dad did airshows, many times the tops of the cabs of the firetrucks would have the families and friends sitting up there for a better view. Hopefully those days are past. It would eat up a lot of time helping the kids get down.

2) Second. maybe ICAS, EAA, IAC, etc. can do a few articles and teach their performers to check areas of concern out before the airshow weekend gets underway. Never assume the organization or individuals putting the show on know everything about aircraft safety.

Iclo · **Posted:** Sat May 17, 2014 11:03 am

I'm a not an airshow expert but to have been involved in massive gathering of people (Close to 100,000 in the center of a big city, not the easiest type of gathering) It's difficult to understand how Emergency equipement could have been blocked behind the crow without reserved path to access on the various parts of the site.

For me, the sad and tragic question to know if the pilot perished in the crash or in the following fire, doesn't change the fact that the response time was way too long because of an inadequate pre-positinning.

Having to cross the crowd to response to an emergency on the runway is a total lack of logic. The reponse time could have been infinite if the crowd was more compact and could drive to a new accident if a truck hit someone.

After each accident, lesson have to be learnt and changes made.

51fixer · **Posted:** Sat May 17, 2014 11:34 am

marine air wrote:

2) Second. maybe ICAS, EAA, IAC, etc. can do a few articles and teach their performers to check areas of concern out before the airshow weekend gets underway. Never assume the organization or individuals putting the show on know everything about aircraft safety.

These lessons have been learned and alittle thought application and logic can go a long way.
FAA had the final say on the package presented to them. They had to approve what was presented.
It's a shame that we have to learn the same lessons over again.

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7555

Perhaps a nieve question, but does the Military branches have different rules they follow than the civilian sector when it comes to rescue and emergency procedures at their airshows and open houses? I've been reading some of the posts in this thread about what I'm taking to be "standard ICAS, FAA etc. regulations and standards but perhaps I'm not understanding the whole deal clearly. Do safety rules dictate the event or vise-versa?

51fixer · **Posted:** Sat May 17, 2014 12:51 pm

Mark Allen M wrote:

Perhaps a nieve question, but does the Military branches have different rules they follow than the civilian sector when it comes to rescue and emergency procedures at their airshows and open houses? I've been reading some of the posts in this thread about what I'm taking to be "standard ICAS, FAA etc. regulations and standards but perhaps I'm not understanding the whole deal clearly. Do safety rules dictate the event or vise-versa?

ICAS is an organization that represents the Airshow Industry. Like EAA for homebuilder but more on a professional level. They have a program to issue Aerobatic Competency rating to the performers following FAA Guidelines and issue guidelines and rules for the industry.
Any Public Air Display in the US is regulated and run by the FAA. Even on a Military Base. You apply for and the FAA gives the waiver to hold the show.
The waiver is needed as their are "normal" rules regulating speed and type of flying in controlled airspace, within certain distances from assemblies of people and buildings, ext. The waiver is issued for certain specific FARs and for a given time. i.e. they won't bust you for going faster than 250 knots in an airport airspace or for exceeding 30 degrees up for the nose or rolling more than 60 degrees in a bank over the airport. Normally offenses that will get you violated by the FAA because you violated a Federal Law in the FARs that says you can't exceed 250 knots in an Airport control area. Or their is an FAR that says you can't roll more than 60 degrees in the same area so rolling inverted would be another offense.
Waivers are also granted for Ballon fests, skydiving meets, ext. When you need to perform things that will break the rules it allows you to do so legally.

The FAA has a whole manual of how to's. Its 8900.1 has chapters relating to this.
http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/airshow/
http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/8900.1/v03%2 ... 06_001.pdf

Waiver application form which would start the ball rolling. There would be multiple meetings and communications prior to approval. Part of this is providing a detailed map of where emergency equipment and personnel would be located.
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/medi ... 7711-2.pdf

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11280

I don't know anything about running an airshow, but since when is the FAA responsible for the positioning of fire trucks? They may want to know, but I'm not sure rescue operations after a crash are part of their responsibility.

David J Burke · **Joined:** Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:52 am **Posts:** 189

I thought the FAA would regulate fire response on airfields . Certainly in the U.K the CAA inspects it. The UK military has a response time to be at any part of an airfield -pretty sure the U.S operates in a similar way otherwise there is little point if you cannot rescue in a timely manner.

51fixer · **Posted:** Mon May 19, 2014 7:25 am

bdk wrote:

I don't know anything about running an airshow, but since when is the FAA responsible for the positioning of fire trucks? They may want to know, but I'm not sure rescue operations after a crash are part of their responsibility.

It is part of the overall process.
Organizer indicates what services they'll have present and their location.
FAA can say yay or nay and give input.
I'm unsure what other federal agencies get involved but all the paperwork goes to the FAA for the waiver and its processed based on their policies, rules and regulations.
It doesn't mean its good enough as I know ICAS has a set of desired requirements that include many specifics.
We'll see how this plays out in FAA policy in the future.

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7555

Interesting information indeed and lots to learn here, although tragic premise, it's been a valuable thread. As I read more posts regarding how this tragedy could perhaps influence change, or at least a serious review, of airshow safety and emergency policies, I can't help to think that since this particular accident happened on a military base, just how much of a quagmire this could end up being. As I now understand it the FAA is the blanket coverage over ALL standards (including military shows), but I also assume the military has their own standards that could perhaps rival those of the FAA from time to time? I don't know as I'm not educated in this area, but I could see the military becoming quite defensive over being accused of any wrong doing by the FAA, ICAS etc.. Just some thoughts, but I could be way off here.

Taigh Ramey · **Posted:** Mon May 19, 2014 4:47 pm

I talked to the fire personnel at our airport and at a federal airport about response times. I was told that they are to respond to the middle of the runway within 60 seconds and the second truck has to be there no more than 30 seconds later. They also said that they have to be able to respond to the furthest point of the runway within 3 minutes. This is for normal operations.

If the ICAS recommendations stated earlier were followed at this Airshow and the vehicles were positioned on the flight line near the aerobatic box they would have easily been able to get to the the aircraft within 60 seconds.

The base commander was interviewed on the news and he said that the notification of the crash went out immediately. Timing on the video shows that if the fire rescue crews had reached Eddie within 60 seconds then there most likely would have been a different outcome.

If the response time for an Air Force Base fire rescue is the same as civil and federal air fields then the next big question is why did it take over 4 minutes to get there.

Redtracer · **Posted:** Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:16 pm

Update on crash;

(Being reported by multiple news agencies in our area.)

Stunt pilot who crashed in air show at Travis Air Force Base died of burns

Associated Press

POSTED: 06/26/2014 11:52:50 AM PDT0 COMMENTS
UPDATED: 06/26/2014 11:52:51 AM PDT

FAIRFIELD -- An autopsy report says the pilot of a vintage biplane that crashed during a Northern California air show died of burns.

The Air Force Wednesday says a Solano County autopsy report concluded extensive thermal injuries killed 77-year-old Eddie Andreini.

His plane crashed before 85,000 people during a May 4 show at Travis Air Force Base.

The plane was upside down and 20 feet off the ground for a stunt where a knife attached to it was supposed to cut a ribbon.

Instead, investigators say the plane struck the runway, slid and burst into flames before coming to a stop.

mlenoch · **Posted:** Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:53 pm

New ICAS recommendations are for a quick response vehicle and crew to be positioned at show center under direct control of the show boss.
Also, any additional CFR vehicles must be in plain view of the show boss and have immediate direct access to the runway/show environment.
These ICAS recommendations were immediately developed and distributed to all show producers in the US, in the aftermath of this Solano incident.
Just FYI,
VL

51fixer · **Posted:** Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:07 pm

I've also heard that FAA is requiring log book sign off from performing pilots of routines being practiced within 45 days of your performance. This must be done at the same floor as your Ace Card level. ie if your qualified at 200' you have to provide a sign off that you practiced your performance at 200'. You can't practice at 500' or 1000' floor for this sign off if your performance is at 200'.

At least the Geneseo Performer Paperwork referenced this as a response to this accident.

pilot06 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:09 pm

Taigh,
As you were there, it appears the ground personnel takes a casual approach to getting the pilot out of the aircraft. I didn't see any attempt to raise the tail of the aircraft to get access to the cockpit. Granted, I'm relying on the web for my information regarding this tragedy. It's almost as if they were waiting for the rescue crews to arrive and they were surprised by the fire. Either way, still angers me greatly that no one has been brought to task for this. It's CYA at every level.

What can be learned?
Don't rely on anyone on the ground save you.
Have an answer on board.
Would a portable Halon fire extinguisher have made a difference?
Nomex flightsuit?

Decide for yourselves. Gound personnel are right there after landing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI4w2PKL4zk

Taigh Ramey wrote:

I talked to the fire personnel at our airport and at a federal airport about response times. I was told that they are to respond to the middle of the runway within 60 seconds and the second truck has to be there no more than 30 seconds later. They also said that they have to be able to respond to the furthest point of the runway within 3 minutes. This is for normal operations.

If the ICAS recommendations stated earlier were followed at this Airshow and the vehicles were positioned on the flight line near the aerobatic box they would have easily been able to get to the the aircraft within 60 seconds.

The base commander was interviewed on the news and he said that the notification of the crash went out immediately. Timing on the video shows that if the fire rescue crews had reached Eddie within 60 seconds then there most likely would have been a different outcome.

If the response time for an Air Force Base fire rescue is the same as civil and federal air fields then the next big question is why did it take over 4 minutes to get there.

Warbirdnerd · **Joined:** Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:34 pm **Posts:** 2906

Eddie's Family has filed a lawsuit against the Federal Government:

Quote:

The family of the veteran stunt pilot killed during an air show at Travis Air Force Base in May is seeking $20 million in damages from the federal government, claiming emergency crews did not respond quickly enough to free him from his burning aircraft.

Eddie Andreini, 77, of Half Moon Bay, died May 4 at the base near Fairfield when his vintage Boeing E75 Stearman biplane crashed, skidded into a field and burst into flames as he attempted an upside-down pass over the runway during Travis' "Thunder Over Solano" air show. The event -- the first in three years at the air force base -- was cut short by the tragedy.

The law firm Danko Meredith of Redwood Shores filed three wrongful death claims totaling $20 million Tuesday on behalf of Andreini's wife, Linda, and sons Eddie Andreini Jr. and Mario Andreini. The claims are a precursor to a lawsuit.

"Mr. Andreini died as a result of the rescue and firefighting services' failure to extinguish the fire and rescue Mr. Andreini from the aircraft in a timely or reasonable manner," stated the claim submitted to Travis' 60th Air Mobility Wing.

Travis Air Force Base officials declined to comment Wednesday.

Andreini, a veteran of nearly 1,000 air shows, died in the flames while he was trapped in the downed aircraft and waiting for firefighters to arrive, according to a Solano County coroner's autopsy report obtained by The Bee.

"When Eddie's aircraft came to rest, Eddie was unhurt," family attorney Michael S. Danko said in a statement, adding that crew members and fellow pilots heard him call over the radio that he was fine but was trapped and needed help.

"Had the fire trucks responded as they were supposed to," Danko wrote, "Eddie would be alive today."

National Transportation Safety Board investigators concluded in a May preliminary report that it took fire crews three to four minutes to arrive to extinguish the blaze after the accident. Danko said Air Force regulations require that emergency trucks be positioned to respond to a scene within 60 seconds.

Spectators, including a photographer who captured images of Andreini's routine and crash, criticized emergency crews' response to the wreck. They said as many as five minutes elapsed between the time Andreini's biplane crashed and fire crews arrived.

"He should be in the hospital with second-degree burns and smoke inhalation. Instead, he's at the coroner's office," said Roger Bockrath of Davis, a retired photojournalist, after the crash. "It's shocking to me how long it took. I'm still rattled by it."

Found it here:
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014 ... death.html

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Biplane crash at Thunder Over Solano Airshow

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