new build ME 262's

[pjpahs]

Classic Fighter Industries and Legend Flyers and others had made new build ME 262's and from what I can find out they made 2- 2seat, 1- 1seat, and 2- convertible airframes. The convertibles could be configured to be a 1 seat or 2 seat. The Collings is a 2 seat, the one that went to Germany is a convertible, and I think the single seat went to Evergreen Museum as static. That leaves the 2nd 2 seat for sale and leaves Yagens as a convertible. I found video of Yagens flying as both. Now what I want to know if I am correct, and just what is involved to convert them from 1 to 2 flyers? Does anyone have photos of the conversion process? Some video shots of Yegans are confusing, it will show it flying with a pilot only, then video from inside that is being taken by the backseater. , Collings is N262AZ and Yagens is N262MF.

[Rajay]

In addition to the two examples you mentioned, I found two others either currently or "recently" on the US registry:

N262MS
2005* BOB HAMMER LLC/HAMMER R H ME-262-B1-A s/n 501244
(*first CoR issued in 2001)

WERNER E LOUIS JR
6900 E CAMELBACK RD STE 805
SCOTTSDALE, AZ 85251-8054

*EXPORTED to Germany January 18, 2006 (and "de-registered" in the US at that time)
That N-number currently reserved by:
SIEBEN MARTIN
BORNSTRASSE 25A
HAMBURG, GERMANY 20146

and

N94503
(no date of Mfg. specified; CoR issued Dec. 15, 2000) MESSERSCHMITT ME-262-A s/n T-2-4012

VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
505 5TH AVE S STE 900
SEATTLE, WA 98104-3821

I assume that this second one is the "real" (aka original/survivor) mentioned in Wikipedia as:
"Me 262 A-1a/U3 W.Nr. ("Werk Number" aka serial no.) 500453
Flying Heritage Collection, Everett, Washington, USA, currently in England undergoing restoration to flying condition.
It is intended to fly using its original Jumo 004 engines. The aircraft was bought from The Planes of Fame, Chino, California."

Am I correct in that assumption? Can anyone else confirm it? If so, apparently there is a bit of a conflict regarding its proper serial number.

Note too for all of you who believe that all B-17's are "Boeings" and all Wildcats and Avengers are "Grummans" that all ME-262's are NOT "Messerschmitts". These newer, essentially "license-built" copies are officially and properly identified on the basis of who actually "built" them, not by who originally designed and/or built them in the past.

That is in spite of the fact that the newer "reproductions" were considered to be so accurate (with the exception of the use of more modern and reliable GE J85 engines) that the Messerschmitt Foundation in Germany granted the builders permission to use serial numbers consecutive to the last ones used during the original production in Germany.

Last edited by Rajay on Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Rajay]

FYI: the two ME-262 aircraft that were first mentioned by pjpahs are:

N262AZ
2002 CLASSIC FIGHTER INDUSTRIES INC. ME-262 REPRODUCTION s/n 501241
COLLINGS FOUNDATION
PO BOX 248
STOW, MA 01775-0248

and

N262MF
2011 LEGEND FLYERS LLC ME 262-B1-A s/n 501243
TRAINING SERVICES INC
4455 SOUTH BLVD
VIRGINIA BEACH, VA 23452-1159

[RickH]

Werner donated his example to Coillngs Foundation. It is N262AZ.

[Rajay]

Werner donated his example to Coillngs Foundation. It is N262AZ.

The serial numbers don't match.... Are you sure they are the exact same bird? Maybe he had the first two new builds - and one went to Collings and one to Germany?

[Ryan Harris]

Sometimes a US "owner" will be listed on the FAA paperwork for flight testing and registration purposes, but actually owned by a foreign owner. In the case of 262MS it was the Messerschmitt Foundation's airplane. I'm not sure if they used Judge Werner's name under this same circumstance, but it does happen. Steve Hinton's name is/has been on several Fighter Collection airplanes throughout the years.

262AZ is 100% the airplane that Judge Werner owned and ultimately donated to the Collings Foundation.

[pjpahs]

Air Assets out of Lafayette, Colorado has listed the last flying ME 262 as a project plane . 3 mil. and I guess they will complete the flyer which is a 2 seat. Doesn't give a serial no. , issued when complete I suppose. Last one of the 5 new made ,I think. Would still like to see any photos of the conversion from a 1 seat to a 2 seat. Missed seeing the Collings in Texas in April, and only saw the Yegan flyby at Virginia Beach.

[bombadier29]

(no date of Mfg. specified; CoR issued Dec. 15, 2000) MESSERSCHMITT ME-262-A s/n T-2-4012

VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
505 5TH AVE S STE 900
SEATTLE, WA 98104-3821

I assume that this second one is the "real" (aka original/survivor) mentioned in Wikipedia as:
"Me 262 A-1a/U3 W.Nr. ("Werk Number" aka serial no.) 500453
Flying Heritage Collection, Everett, Washington, USA, currently in England undergoing restoration to flying condition.
It is intended to fly using its original Jumo 004 engines. The aircraft was bought from The Planes of Fame, Chino, California."

Am I correct in that assumption? Can anyone else confirm it? If so, apparently there is a bit of a conflict regarding its proper serial number.

Rajay, this is the one that belongs to Paul Allen. Its not in England, unless its gone there in the last two or three months, and I've never heard of a serial number conflict but I wouldn't be surprised if you came up with one.

Note too for all of you who believe that all B-17's are "Boeings" and all Wildcats and Avengers are "Grummans" that all ME-262's are NOT "Messerschmitts". These newer, essentially "license-built" copies are officially and properly identified on the basis of who actually "built" them, not by who originally designed and/or built them in the past.

The first time somebody says, "hey did you see Jerry Yagen's Legend Flyers ME-262 is up for sale?" I'm sure somebody will call you. Are you sure the airplane should even be called an "ME"? Maybe it should truthfully and more accurately be identified as the LF-262.

That is in spite of the fact that the newer "reproductions" were considered to be so accurate (with the exception of the use of more modern ad reliable GE J85 engines) that the Messerschmitt Foundation in Germany granted the builders permission to use serial numbers consecutive to the last ones used during the original production in Germany.

I've never heard that in regards to the 262's. I have heard it in regards to the Flug Work FW-190s (that were no more accurate in their reporduction than basic appearance and the tail wheel assembly)

[bombadier29]

Werner donated his example to Coillngs Foundation. It is N262AZ.

The serial numbers don't match.... Are you sure they are the exact same bird? Maybe he had the first two new builds - and one went to Collings and one to Germany?

Are you actually going to argue with the guy that apparantly runs the jet program for the Collings Foundation Dave?

[Rajay]

In case you were too busy just being ... yourself, you should read those posts again. I wasn't arguing with anybody. I simply asked a question about the possiblity that two different aircraft were being confused with each other.

I also didn't make up anything about their serial numbers; I simply reported how they are listed in the FAA registration database versus how one of them might or might not be the exact same aircraft that is noted/described in the "always right-never wrong" Wikipedia entry regarding the type in question, but just so happens to be noted there with a different serial number.

Note too that the supposed serial number of the Vulcan Warbirds (supposedly a "real" i.e actual) "Messerschmitt" ME-262, at least as far as its FAA registration goes, does not match the format of the other ME-262 "reproductions" mentioned here - all of which have been reported (I know that I read it somewhere...) to be actually consecutive to original Messerschmitt wartime production serial numbers. (But apparently "bombadier29" has never heard about that, so read into that what you will....FWIW) In any case, that's why it stood out to me as being "potentially" spurious - and that's why I "asked" about but made no other declarations or statements of fact regarding it.

And just in case you don't get the obvious "tongue in cheek" reference about Wikipedia, let me spell it out clearly for you; I do not by any stretch of the imagination believe that Wikipedia is "always right" and "never wrong".

P.S. Sayonara!

[DaveM2]

Re the original FHC aircraft. It is Me 262A-1a/U3. wk.nr. 500453, White 25 of 1./NAG 6.

It was moved from the UK back to the US in 2009.

[pjpahs]

Not to take my post on a tangent but when I visited the Udvar Hazy Museum last month, in the restoration hanger was a Japanese Nakajima Kikka, "Orange Blossom". It is a smaller, straight winged almost copy of the ME 262. It was sitting under the wing of a Sikorski flying boat and over against the wall was some swept wings that I found out to belong to a Horton flying wing. Udvar Hazy is a must see.