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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:08 pm 
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I've decided to start a new thread on my parlor trick of turning a 1949 North American T28 Trojan first into a Grumman Avenger and then into a street legal car. I figured you'll either get a kick out of the project or kick me for the project. I'm starting with a corroded, bent up, slightly burned, down and out 1949 T28 that wasn't really doing much with itself , and I'm giving it new chance to make something of itself. I hauled it home in May of 2012 and have had it in storage for several months. The idea is to convert the canopy using T6 Texan canopy sections that I bought from one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, to have the appearance of a TBM Avenger canopy---at least from about 100 yards away. I plan on doing a lot of cosmetic work to make the fuselage more Avenger-like. I'll have to build a steel internal frame to mount the automotive drive train to. I've already come up with a 454 Chevrolet engine and automatic transmission.
I plan on this monstrosity being front wheel drive with a giant stationary tail wheel. It will be front steer even though it has a tail wheel. Think of it as a giant reverse trike motorcycle. I'm diving in head first. Here we go.

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Last edited by carlisle1926 on Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:11 pm 
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Here is a rough draft sketch of my idea. I'm missing a few pieces in this giant scale model kit. If you know of anyone that has a junk bent up 3 blade prop that would fit a R1830, R1820, R2600 or R1300, or just about any radial engine let me know. It just needs to be a large bent up prop that will be welded in place over a dummy engine.--- or is that mounted in place by a dummy?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:26 pm 
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I brought the engine home from the hanger one day to work on taking it apart and realized that it is heavy and that I wasn't going to just lift it out of the bed of my truck. So, I tied a chain around it and drove out from under it lynch mob style. It hung in my tree for a bit as I dismantled it. My neighbors all sneered and asked me why I had an engine hangin in my tree. I told them that I was starting my Christmas decorating early and that I would soon be hanging pretty engine blocks of all makes and colors on the giant tree as ornaments and that colored lights would soon follow. One of them called it my redneck wind chime and I decided that I liked that better.
In the end I was able to gut the engine and reduce the weight significantly. My next step is to cut each cylinder in half so that only the front side of the engine will be intact. I'll have to make a special engine mount under the cowlings, but once all of the baffles are in place, I think the general public will not be able to tell that only a fraction of the engine is on the plane.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:50 pm 
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I'm thinking that I can use a Beech 18 main gear with a massive amount of modification as the tail wheel in the car. I need the wheel, brakes and the fork. I don't plan on using the top hydraulic cylinder part. I imagine laying this main gear down nearly horizontally and adding springs and shocks to it to add suspension travel in much the same way that a motorcycle's rear suspension works
I can't use this Beech 18 gear because I've started turning it into a large corner lamp. I used a fiberglass DC3 nose bowl to make the giant lamp shade. I have a ways to go with the lamp idea. SO, hopefully one of you has a landing gear that you have been tripping over that you don't need. Can a large automotive tire can be mounted on this wheel? I think it is a 16 or 16.5" rim. Keep in mind that I need a bent up 3 bladed propeller too.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:10 pm 
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Will you have problems road-registering it, or is there some kind of parade-only exemption?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:49 pm 
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Sir, You are insane... But then so am I ... I wish we were neighbors.. Your bold creativity is amazing...

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:19 pm 
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Stephan Wilkinson wrote:
Will you have problems road-registering it, or is there some kind of parade-only exemption?

They have special art car title and license plates here now, so it shouldn't be to bad.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:39 pm 
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I am curious coming from a historian and heritage veiwpoint...as i followed your thread from start thinking we see another aircraft saved and restored but what i cant understand is why damage such a rare aircraft, as it is a relatively uncommon T-28 Mexican air force? ...

You could make money out of this taking it to airshows as a long term semi restored aircraft display item and letting people sit in it ......instead of making a car... Have you considered this and then decided too hard at a specific point?

I think you have the basis for a good project there, as i would of restored it to a interesting aircraft status.

Good luck with the car meanwhile.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:03 pm 
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Buy one of these:

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Cheaper, and it turns!!!! :drink3: :drink3: :drink3:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:26 pm 
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so whats up with the second fuselage or did you not get both in the picture

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:37 pm 
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wouldn't it be cheaper and faster to make a fiberglass copy of the engine front than cutting it in half? That engine is worth some $$$ on ebay...

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:58 pm 
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Liberator wrote:
I am curious coming from a historian and heritage veiwpoint...as i followed your thread from start thinking we see another aircraft saved and restored but what i cant understand is why damage such a rare aircraft, as it is a relatively uncommon T-28 Mexican air force? ...

You could make money out of this taking it to airshows as a long term semi restored aircraft display item and letting people sit in it ......instead of making a car... Have you considered this and then decided too hard at a specific point?

I think you have the basis for a good project there, as i would of restored it to a interesting aircraft status.

Good luck with the car meanwhile.

All of that was considered. But here is the reality. A T28A is rare but it doesn't have much of a value in the current unrestored state. Even if fully restored this plane will never have the value of a p51. Keep in mind that this plane has corrosion issues, and it was in a grass fire that warped the bottom side. The engine was full of water and it was severely burned in the grass fire. The wings tips were melted in the grass fire. The cowlings have severe corrosion as well as damage from the fire. The interior was gutted. That is just a partial list of the damage to the airframe. The plane sat out abandoned in Mexico for many years and then it was stored out doors for many years in the humid Texas air. Many people had ample opportunity to save this plane, but no one did. Once in my possession, I started listing parts off of it on Ebay to try and generate revenue for the car idea. Most of the major parts didn't bring much over $40. The landing gear sold for a whopping $400. I had tons of calls and nasty emails about it while on Ebay. about the rarity of the plane. I had at least ten offers to buy it outright. Not a single offer was over $2000 for the complete mess. The way I see it ,a Model A Ford that they made hundreds of thousands of bring more money than that.
It would be an enormous expense to restore this plane and it most likely wouldn't be worth any where near the amount of money it took to restore it because it is a low powered T28A and not the more desirable big engined D model. The parts only brought a few hundred dollars on Ebay.. Things are only worth what the market will bear and that includes gold and aircraft. Obviously this plane is worth less than a Model A Ford in its current state. If it is practically worthless, then why not convert it into something that can drive around and generate interest for the warbird community from those that aren't at an airshow or museum. Putting it up on static display only generates interest at a museum surrounded by people that are already interested or they wouldn't be there. This thing can be driven all over and it doesn't need to be on some cumbersome truck/trailer combo. People will still be able to climb all over it--- probably more so than at a museum. It could drive around the city before an airshow advertising the event. It will be used as a backdrop when I set up selling my nose art pieces. The airplane will draw more of a crowd at non aviation events because it isn't lost in the sea of more interesting planes at an airshow. It can be used as a teaching tool. I think it will have more wow factor than another preserved static display.
I don't see that I'm destroying what was already for the most part destroyed. If this was a P40 that I was doing this to, I could see the huge concern for loss of history. But there again, if the shoe was on the other foot and I was watching some jerk destroy a potential restoration project, I would probably slap a pop knot on his head. I'm having a lot of fun with this thing for a lot less money than the cost of a restoration too.

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Last edited by carlisle1926 on Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:05 am 
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Enemy Ace wrote:
wouldn't it be cheaper and faster to make a fiberglass copy of the engine front than cutting it in half? That engine is worth some $$$ on ebay...

As a guy that spent years making fiberglass molds, no it isn't faster or cheaper. A plasma cutter made short work of the engine and it yielded a lot of neat parts that will be made into art pieces that will fetch far more money. The engine was considered not to be worth more than $500 on Ebay, so it was cut up. I can't make all of those parts out of fiberglass for that. I even offered up all of the inner parts on Ebay for practically nothing with 0 takers.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:13 am 
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Chris wrote:
so whats up with the second fuselage or did you not get both in the picture

The second fuselage is not as complete and has many of the same issues. No engine but has wings and control surfaces. It can be bought I guarantee that. It isn't mine,but the guy that owns it is probably one of the nicest and most devoted guys that you will ever meet, and he is willing to sell to help keep other planes in the air that he is involved with. But, he isn't going to give it away either. Private message me and I can put you in contact with him for serious buyers. I have about $9k in this one

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:41 am 
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Thanks for the reply, can see it obviously is past the point of a static and the car idea does indeed have merit. Good luck sure will be a head turner.


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