Warbird Information Exchange

SD

I concur there is no way "Texas Longhorn" could be A29-43, as they are totally different models (A29-43 is an E model whereas the Longhorn is a E-1).

I was under the impression that there was enough parts of 'The Rebel/Texas Longhorn No.1" (No.1 just so we can tell between this and the Magnetic Isld one) that a complete aircraft could be manufactured. I was also under the same impression for A29-43, so that we would have two aircraft being built not one. (please note when I say enough parts I have no idea what is left, although whatever there is contains enough to positively identify the aircraft, thus giving an identity for CAA rules).

Very Interesting..............

P40 PARTS • WANTED • Fuselage is done, requires many internals. What have you got? • Contact Robert A. Greinert - HAR AVIATION, End User - located Albion Park, Australia • Telephone: 61 434 474738 . • Posted October 13, 2012 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad • Finance New Lower Rates!

Colonel Hogan........I see nothing....nothing



SD

Aside from the actual Longhorn debate,I thought landers took over P-40E 'The Rebel' after Capt Ben Irvin went states side.Thats the one he crashed bailed out over the PNG Jungle. Apparently Landers scored his first 4 kills while flying P-40E 'Skeeter' .Texas longhorn markings show that 5 kill markings are displayed under the cockpit canopy.Did he get his 6th kill after converting to P-38's?

Can anyone conferm the order on which he flew the p-40's he flew or which P-40 he scored kills in?

Nice try DamonE, this can't be either Skeeter or The Rebel as both have been already accounted for by other collectors. A little research and asking around will confirm this. As for the number of kills, these stay with the pilot, not the aircraft, so as landers progressed through the several P-40's he is recorded as using he could have marked each one progressively with the number of kills he had at the time.

I have several shots of Skeeter and The Rebel both during and after use by several pilots including Landers showing between 2 and 5 kills. The problems start when people assume that, the kills, ie 1,2,3,4 and 5 must be the order of the pictures taken, but in fact the dates often do not correlate. This is because of the change in piltos, so they would add a kill in say Jan 43 for that pilot, then when he moves on to another aircraft, remove 2 kills to reflect the new pilots rating who is taking over the older aircraft. It is confusing but the beauty in it is that it very quickly identifies fraudsters who calim to have a certain aircraft flown by ace so and so when a check of official records prove ace so and so didn't have that machine at the time he maxed out on his kills ie he was on P-38's.

A nice example of this is Landers standing next to Skeeter at a time when he had actually changed aircraft, but for the PR or private collection of Landers etc the date of the picture is assumed to be Landers with his current mount. Its like when you sell your favourite car and you want one last picture of you with it before you hand it over to the new owner. Sometime in the future when looking back at the picture people say'oh look, chris had a Corvette in 75' which is partially true except I sold that Vette in 75 and moved on to the 57 coupe". And as most good historians of the 49ers know, Landers never flew the Long Horn in any operational missions where he scored kills in it. I was just wondering if this was your type of source,

Profile 01: P-40E serial 41-5647 'White 81' of 2Lt John D Landers, 9th FS/49th FG, Darwin, Australia, Summer 1942. Another member of Andy Reynolds' deadly 'Blue Flight', 'Big John' Landers scored his first six confirmed victories in the 9th FS during 1942. His P-40E, SKEETER, in which he scored his first four kills, mimicked the gaudy diving eagle on Reynolds' aircraft. After completing his combat tour in the Pacific, Landers went on to achieve greater fame as commander of several Eighth Air Force fighter units. He finished the war with a total of 14.5 confirmed victories.

from this site: http://asisbiz.com/il2/P-40/P-40E-49FG9 ... nders.html

So is Landers standing next to his or reynolds aircraft???????
But to answer your Question DamonE, Landers got his first 4 kills in 2 different aircraft according to 'official' records

SD

Its difficult to distinguish which P-40 Landers is standinmg next to.If we are refering to landers standing near rear fuselage where the diving eagle motif is .Its difficult to pinpoint if he is standing next to Reynolds aircraft Stardust, Skeeter his own P-40. The eagle motif differs from aircraft to aircraft.The eagle on some are painted lighter ,some have blood coming from thair talons .The motifs are also located in slightly different positions on various aircraft.Adding to the confusion.

Very informative discussion you guys.

_________________
Hang The Expense

Shelldrake , I am of the opinion that the the picture of John landers you refer to, of him standing next to the P-40 with the painting of the eagle on the side is his P-40E, 'Skeeter'.Differences in the surround behind the eagle ,different colors on the eagles wings ,tail feathers,and a higher postion of the eagles head compared to Reynolds' 'Stardust' eagle motif.
Unfortunately,I am going on my references that I have ,images in books not actual photos. I'd like to get some actual or good copies of photos in the future as time allows.

Damon E

DamonE

you are correct, its very difficult without good images, but an example of what I'm talking about can be found on the website link I posted previously. On that site is a very nice 3/4 in flight view of Skeet - showing 3 kills by the way - and you can see the difference in the position of the US star and the Eagle motif by using the luggage door as a reference point. Its also not Landers fly Skeeter on this occassion but Reynolds - go figure. So we get back to my research based argument before. Who flew what and when compared to "historical" photographs.



SD

SD and DamonE

You both seem to discount that Landers may be stood in front of one of the other aircraft in the flight, certainly it is know that at least 4 aircraft wore the "Eagle", with at least 4 more as very likely to have worn the "Eagle".

Same with the Dragon head from Kruzels "Dragon Flight" on the cowls of aircraft, there are at least 4 cases of the Dragon on aircraft. Likely there will be more

There are some difference between each aircraft and they can at times be very small, however without multiple dated shots of these aircraft the who whats and where's is going to be lost in time.

I hope one day that some further photos of the whole 49FG (not just the 9FS) will come to light and many of these question will be answered

Buz

The kids from the British "band" S Club 7 used to call each other muffins. Just sayin'

On Barnstormers at the moment is the fuselage that was built for an overseas buyer but who sold the fuse to a couple of well known warbird entusiasts here in Australia.

Throw in some bits collected, add a spare set of wings, sourced from where ever and there you have a backdoor sale of a P-40E. I have no idea of what ID they are claiming but I bet its going to make people laugh.

CURTISS P-40E KITTYHAWK • FOR SALE • Never offered for sale before. Includes fully rebuilt fuselage, presently being fitted out. Original wings with complete undercarriage assemblies still installed. Includes Allison engine, engine mounts, exhausts, radiators, oil cooler, propeller, new tail surfaces, instruments, most parts to complete. Exceptional introduction to P-40 ownership. $675,000. • Contact Graham Orphan, Broker - located Blenheim, New Zealand • Telephone: 64-21-683 954 . 64-3-578 9609 . 64-3-578 9607 • Fax: 64-3-577 6451 • Posted March 2, 2013 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad • View Larger Pictures • Finance New Lower Rates!



SD

Howdy Shelldrake

'Jungle Bob' up to his usuall business schemes !
He would sell ice to the eskimos if there was money in it

Lightning

I just can't get over how openly obvious the whole issue has been, I mean, anyone who has read the PNG report into SG knows or must at least suspect that official
eyes are watching the actions of certain people. The photographic evidence alone is enough to meet certain legal requirements. I know some people say "ah whats the problem" but its a terrible reflection upon the entire warbird movement in this country. One bad apple spoils an entire barrel of cider as my dear old dad would say.



Time will tell I guess.


SD

Not sure what the fuss is in this thread, hope it works out for the best in the end though, whatever that ending will be. Hopefully another restored P-40 either flying or static. Couple of photos here. Their stated as being 49th FG P-40's. Anyone know for sure? Source SDASM archives.

_________________
[Thread title is ridiculous btw]

Not sure what the fuss is about???

well, its only changed hands once but had 3 ID's put to it, would be right at home with one of those Nigerian emails, saying they want you to look after

a zillion dollars for them and all you need to do is hand over all your details - and cash eventually.

Can't wait to hear what ID they've chosen as I'll bet it will be wrong. This group is well known for getting things wrong.


SD