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Classic Wings Magazine Luftwaffe Resource Center WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific
Final Cut-The Post War B-17 Flying Fortress and Survivors - 5th Edition


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:57 am 
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Some news just to hand from my special man on the spot is that a well known P47 collector here in Australia and a well known Aviation Magazine author are planning to rebuild P40E Texas Longhorn back to flight. This amazing story gets even more interesting when its discovered that the fuselage of this aircraft was originally built as A29-43 by an unknown (to me anway) overseas builder. However, the previous owner had to quit the project and the two forementioned gentlemen made the purchase. Now I know there are a lot of opinions on this forum regarding identity claims and how much original content goes into a rebuild, but this seems to be stretching it a little. Even with a great story behind it, most of the warbird community here in Australia knew what Murray had on his rebuild register prior to his sad passing.

So is this the way of the future? the ID for Longhorn is supposed to have come from a private collector last known to be working at Temora. But records indicate that the original Longhorn is still sitting in about 60 feet of salt water off the Queensland coast. So was there a second Longhorn named after the demise of the first? If so, what was its history and how does is morph from A29-43 into another ID??

If anyone can sort this out for me I would be most interested to know the how's and what nots.

SD


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:40 am 
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Shelldrake

I presume you are talking about 'Jungle Bob' and Jason Cockayne ?

You will find that the Pilots of the 49th FG went through a lot of aircraft during WW2
Some Pilots & Crew Chiefs had more than one regular aircraft with the same Ship number and similar nose art/name, at different stages of the war. Once a P-40 was overhauled or repaired at Depot, it wasn't always assigned back to the same Pilot or Squadron as the case was with the 7th and 8th FS. The 49th FG three Squadrons had a general rule that the Pilot had his name and Nose Art painted on the left side of aircraft while the Crew Chief had what he wanted on the right side of aircraft

Lightning


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:59 am 
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Lightning, These people know who they are. My reason for posting was to make people aware of this alleged slight of hand in ID's and to honestly see if the information I was given is correct or not. My main concern is, What has happened to A29-43, being an ex RAAF 75 Sqn, I was aware that the overseas owner did have some remains of this wreck even though it ploughed into the ground and virtually disintegrated. The engine crank being recovered within the last decade or so was nothing more than a rusted lump which could have come from anything ie PT boat, generation plant etc. My understanding is based upon remains I have seen belonging to the previous overseas owner, that could easily be linked to 43 and was the basis for the E model rebuild.

I'll be the first to put my hand up and admit that many of the changes, events and paperwork errors that occured during WW2 have no logical explanation to us two generations later, but I'm just trying to keep track of some Australiana and I know the partss from 43 were not sold as a seperate transaction. According to my spy on the ground, the said parties simply heard about the sale, travelled to look at A29-43 and decided yep, we'll just change it to Longhorn.

But as you say Lightning, there could be an explanation as those of us you have done the research, some RAAF issued P40's were returned to the USAF, so is this one of those paper trails yet to be sorted? or just a fraud?


SD


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:32 am 
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LIghtning...don't be such a killjoy...I think Shelldrake was just trying to join the "I know something you don't" club. :P


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:01 pm 
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Like arguments over paint jobs, I think this one has been done to death on WIX. I am going to steal your thread to say that this is one of the reasons I liked Gerry Beck so much. Aside from his incredible skills, when Gerry built his homebuilt P-51A, he said it was a homebuilt P-51A. I am sure he could have conjurred up an identity if he had wanted to. Same with Dick Melton. I had the pleasure of spending an afternoon with him when he was building a two-seater Spitfire in the rafters of a hangar in the early '90s. He was not only candid that it was scratchbuilt, but quite proud of it.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:09 pm 
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RobC wrote:
Like arguments over paint jobs, I think this one has been done to death on WIX.


I.e, "I don't care about it." Wonderful.

To some of us, the provenance of historic aircraft is of considerable interest, and I'd like to hear more about this machine and the various candidates for its identity.

August

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:31 am 
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Xrayist, I take it you know which side of the screen to stand on,

K5083, I'm with you on this one, a paint job comparison,,,,,,WT?

All I'm saying is if there is a logical explanation then let someone explain it, no worries, but if some fair dinkum Aussie veteran warbird is being exstinguished because of some greedy little plan, then yeah, I have a problem with it. Next thing we'll here that A29-43 will suddenly appear out of nowhere.

Good on the P-51A rebuilder, his choice and I think he made the right one, plenty of others wouldn't agree with me I know, but put yourself in the position of a potential buyer who thinks they are getting one thing and end up with something else. There has to be some transparency in all of this.



SD


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:00 pm 
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Shelldrake.

Where's your money then to rebuild something?

The Aussies whingers strike again..


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:21 pm 
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The question posed by Shelldrake seems fair enough to me. What's a whinger?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:53 pm 
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Take the g away.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:02 pm 
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How do they pronounce it, anyway? Is it "winging" or "winjing" or "whynging" or "whynjing" or do they not say the g and just say "whining" like us?

August

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:43 pm 
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I just learned what wowser means last week from another downunder-un.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:06 pm 
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You guys will ask the difference between big and large next.
A whiner and a whinger are different and the words are pronounced differently.
For me a whinger is a constant complainer where a whiner is more related to tone of voice/attitude.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:20 pm 
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Location: Between RAAF Base Uranquinty and RAAF Base Temora
Whinger - one who complains, often excessively. Pronounced 'Win-jer'. Rhymes with Ginger.

And yes, there are plenty of them in Australia, especially when it comes to old aeroplanes.

Cheers,
Matt.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:08 am 
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Edited/Deleted for violation of the personal attack rule.


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