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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:50 pm 
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://hawaii.gov/hawaiiaviation/world-war-ii/december-7-1941

"At Honolulu’s John Rodgers Airport, a Douglas DC-3 operated by Hawaiian Airlines was preparing to admit passengers for a regular inter-island flight. Suddenly, from out of the sky came a Japanese pursuit plane, guns blazing. The time was 7:55 a.m. Robert Tyce, pilot of the K-5 Flying Service, was struck in the head by a machine gun bullet and killed, but no one else was hurt. No bombs were dropped on the airport, all damage being caused by aircraft cannon and machine gun fire. Shot at in the air around the field was a privately owned Aeronca. Another Aeronca, with Oahu legislator Roy Vitousek at the controls, was pursued and shot at by two Japanese planes near Kahuku Point, as the task force headed for Pearl Harbor. Both planes came down safely but with confused pilots and passengers. Marguerite Gambo was flying with a student on a cross-country trip at the time. Seeing what was occurring, she went through a seldom-used pass and landed safely. Four Gambo planes were in the air that day, two failed to return."

This article doesn't mention Cornelia Fort another female flight instructor who nearly collided with a Japanese aircraft while instructing. She was flying an Interstate Cadet. Her student was on his last instruction flight before soloing. Imagine if they had flown an hour earlier! The four Gambo aircraft, the two Aeroncas and Fort makes 7 civilian aircraft airborne at some time during the attack.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:30 pm 
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John Dupre wrote:
I think that there are two or three other civilian aircraft airborne over Oahu during the attack that are survivors. Will look into it and report back.

Aloha John,
Your trek thru "Pearl Harbor History" perhaps may begin with the list of "Aerial Vets of 7 Dec, 1941" by D. Aiken, in Stan Cohen's EAST WIND RAIN [Missoula, MT: Pictorial Histories Pub, 1991 and later revised editions] pages 97-98.

This cites the civilian aircraft pilots, too...

Cheers,
David


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:53 pm 
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The Ford Tri-Motor sold last year at the January auto auction claimed Pearl Harbor damage...and a shot-up tailfin (IIRC) was included in the deal.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:02 pm 
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JBoyle wrote:
The Ford Tri-Motor sold last year at the January auto auction claimed Pearl Harbor damage...and a shot-up tailfin (IIRC) was included in the deal.

Hi JBoyle,
The "bullet hole" evidence is quickly defeated on photo examination...

The evidence for the Tri-motor's "Pearl Harbor" presence is just the K-T Flying Service ownership and "company headquarters at John Rogers Field, HI" without consideration of the Chula Vista, CA operations.
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
David


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:52 pm 
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John Dupre wrote:
://hawaii.gov/hawaiiaviation/world-war-ii/december-7-1941

"At Honolulu’s John Rodgers Airport, a Douglas DC-3 operated by Hawaiian Airlines was preparing to admit passengers for a regular inter-island flight. Suddenly, from out of the sky came a Japanese pursuit plane, guns blazing. The time was 7:55 a.m. Robert Tyce, pilot of the K-5 Flying Service, was struck in the head by a machine gun bullet and killed, but no one else was hurt. No bombs were dropped on the airport, all damage being caused by aircraft cannon and machine gun fire. Shot at in the air around the field was a privately owned Aeronca. Another Aeronca, with Oahu legislator Roy Vitousek at the controls, was pursued and shot at by two Japanese planes near Kahuku Point, as the task force headed for Pearl Harbor. Both planes came down safely but with confused pilots and passengers. Marguerite Gambo was flying with a student on a cross-country trip at the time. Seeing what was occurring, she went through a seldom-used pass and landed safely. Four Gambo planes were in the air that day, two failed to return."

This article doesn't mention Cornelia Fort another female flight instructor who nearly collided with a Japanese aircraft while instructing. She was flying an Interstate Cadet. Her student was on his last instruction flight before soloing. Imagine if they had flown an hour earlier! The four Gambo aircraft, the two Aeroncas and Fort makes 7 civilian aircraft airborne at some time during the attack.


Marguerite Gambo was teaching her student in an Aeronca, her secretary rented another Gambo Flying Service Aeronca to Roy Vitousek [plane exibited in Hawaii] and was shot at by the gunner of Soryu B5N piloted by Juzo Mori...after he flew into the formation AFTER they had dropped their torpedo.

Cornelia Fort was doing touch and go in a Andrew Flying Service Interstate Cadet [another ex-Andrew Flying Service Interstate Cadet exists, not hers] teaching her student at John Rogers.

Four K-T Flying Service aircraft were flying...
two were rented by US Army soldiers to bone up on their skills...and were shot down.
two were being flown by a US sailor on an escorted 'cross-country' flying wing with his instructor, Robert Tyce [co-owner of K-T]...the sailor was the first plane shot down on 7 Dec and AFTER landing, Tyce was killed on the tarmac.

Yes, that makes seven civilian aircraft... but there was an eighth civilian aircraft with an instructor and student.... any ideas???

and then the Pan Am ANZAC CLIPPER was due to arrive to Pearl Harbor, but diverted to Hilo...!

HTH,
David


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:53 am 
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In the several years of Pearl Harbor reseach I have not come accross a Ford Tri-Motor being in Hawaii on Dec 7th.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:39 am 
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David_Aiken wrote:
Aloha All,
The existing "Pearl Harbor" aircraft must EXCLUDE that Ford Trimotor once owned by the K-T Flying Service. K-T had used that Trimotor at their Chula Vista, CA operation, not in Hawaii...despite previously published data.

The 'treasure' areas of which you speak "Off of Pearl Harbor"...are not easily accessible to the average millionaire.

The "dump" ground southwest of Bouy #1 (entrance bouy to the harbor) marks the southern end of Tripod Reef. This 1200 foot deep area is a hodgepodge of wreckage or obsolete military material...including bombs, aircraft, small ships, vehicles...

This Bouy#1 is cited in the reports of the USS Crossbill, USS Cockatoo, and USS St Louis in the torpedo attack by a midget sub....see the NOVA special on 5 Jan 2010 and then report back here for more.

The dump ground on Waipio Peninsula is of the lower portions of the USS Arizona AND the previous platform for the flagpole and "monument" cut off to make the current memorial. The bulk of what we see above the waterline in the 8 Dec 1941 photos of the USS Arizona was shipped back to the mainland as scrap steel. The Waipio location was fenced yet the gate was open until the late 1980s...now it is guarded and the gate is locked.

The dump ground at Kaneohe USMC base is also behind locked gates and off limits to even most base personnel. At the bottom of that stack of crashed aircraft in the ravine MAY be a PBY or two.

The dredged material which were recovered off of Ford Island to make room for the USS Missouri was only moved to another spot off of Ford Island. This includes some of the top mast material which broke off as the USS Oklahoma rolled, and the remains of a crushed OS2U.

Sorry that to dash hopes for quick riches, but Hawaii is fearously enforceing the 50 year Antiquity Act...which means that the dumps are not to be touched.

Cheers,
David Aiken, a Director: Pearl Harbor History Associates, Inc.
http://www.pearlharbor-history.org/
Thanks for all the information David. Regarding the USS Oklahoma, are there still parts of this ship stuck in the mud where she rolled over?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:31 am 
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Nathan wrote:
So what aircraft are survivors of the attack on Pearl Harbor?

Off hand I can think of:

JRS-1 at Garber(this thing is truely historical)
P-40B at Duxford
A civil aircraft onboard USS Missouri
SBD-2 at PNAM

Isn't there a midget sub on display somewhere in Texas?

I can't wait till we are allowed to go in to the junkyard off Pearl Harbor. You got the Arizona birdcage and other parts from various ships. Also junk piles full of wrecked P-40s, P-36's, etc. I really hope we can go in there someday! :D And yes I heard that this stuff DOES survive! Including parts of the Arizona's Kingfisher.
Nathan, I have been doing some research on many websites out there dedicated to the USS Arizona and I thought I would share this with you. Regarding the birdcage masts on the USS Arizona, they were removed in 1929 while the ship was undergoing 20 months of modernization in the Norfolk Navy Yard in Virginia. At this time she also received new boilers, additional armor and a number of the smaller caliber guns were updated. All of this work was completed in March 1931. Hope this information helps.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:02 pm 
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Some of the AZ's superstructure was indeed dumped in some woods on Navy property, but it's badly mangled/burned/rusted. I saw a show a few years ago that had some footage of the wreckage, and it didn't look like much. A park ranger said that they sometimes allowed AZ vets to visit it, and let them have a piece.

Apropos of nothing, here's pic I took of a piece of the BB-39 now on display at the MAPS Museum in Akron OH. I would assume it came from the remains of the superstructure.

SN

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:21 pm 
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Very interesting!

How is the Visitor's Center these days? When I was there in '05, they said it was sinking and were seeking donations to build a new one.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:29 pm 
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Construction of the new visitor's center is well underway with a grand opening planned for Dec 7,2010. http://www.nps.gov/valr/photosmultimedi ... uction.htm

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:43 pm 
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Pat Carry wrote:
Regarding the USS Oklahoma, are there still parts of this ship stuck in the mud where she rolled over?

Hi Pat,
Using this illustration http://japaneseaircraft.multiply.com/ph ... r#photo=60
and the short list which the Pearl Harbor Base PAO related to me (listed above)...
suggests that perhaps there MAY be more parts...
HTH,
David Aiken


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:52 pm 
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David_Aiken wrote:
Pat Carry wrote:
Regarding the USS Oklahoma, are there still parts of this ship stuck in the mud where she rolled over?

Hi Pat,
Using this illustration http://japaneseaircraft.multiply.com/ph ... r#photo=60
and the short list which the Pearl Harbor Base PAO related to me (listed above)...
suggests that perhaps there MAY be more parts...
HTH,
David Aiken

Very interesting David, thanks. In the documentary I saw recently, Daniel Martinez was showing the viewers a portion of the broken mast from the USS Oklahoma sitting on Ford Island. It was not amongst the other ship parts that have been discussed in this thread. Where is that piece today?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:56 am 
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Pat Carry wrote:
In the documentary I saw recently, Daniel Martinez was showing the viewers a portion of the broken mast from the USS Oklahoma sitting on Ford Island. It was not amongst the other ship parts that have been discussed in this thread. Where is that piece today?

Hi Pat,
Either the film clip of Ranger Dan is old, or they removed the mast from the Ford Is waters for some purpose recently...
HTH,
David


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:40 pm 
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Just wanted to give this thread a bump to the main page and maybe do some summarizing. I was just about to start a new thread on this exact subject, but figured I'd better search first. (I actually searched Google for "Pearl Harbor Surviving Planes" not WIX; this thread was the first result that came up.)

So, first off, the search also gave me this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCL9iFqHA-A

Secondly, I wanted to try and sum up the info that had been added since the beginning of the thread:

Surviving:
* JRS-1 at Garber - See video above (Info courtesy Nathan)
* P-40B at Duxford - (Info courtesy Nathan)
* Aeronca 65TC onboard USS Missouri - Took me a while to realize that you meant onboard NOW and not DURING the attack. (Info courtesy Nathan, Pat Carry)
* Aeronca in Hawaii - piloted by Oahu legislator Roy Vitousek, same as above? (Info courtesy John Dupre, David_Aiken)
* Zero at PAM - remains from Niihau incident, same as mentioned shot down by Pat Carry?
* SBD-2 (Bu No. 2106) "Midway Madness" at NNAM - Confusingly referred to as located at PNAM in the first post of this thread - apparently was meant to refer to "Pensacola Naval Aviation Museum" instead of what I assumed to be "Pacific Aviation Museum", also a survivor of the Battle of Midway, detailed 171-page archaeological and historical documentation report. (Info courtesy Nathan, A&T Recovery)
* Waco UIC (1933) - flown by Robert Tyce during the attack, now registered as NC13408 (Info courtesy rothjonb)
* Grumman Duck (s/n 1649) - owned by Chuck Greenhill, Warbird Depot Article (Info courtesy warbird1)

Questionable/Unknown/Not Recovered/Fate Unknown:
* B-10/12s - Underwater offshore? (Info courtesy Cubs & Nathan)
* Kingfisher - With Arizona Wreckage? (Info courtesy SaxMan)
* Kingfisher - Parts found dredging Missouri berth, same as above? (Info corutesy Cripes A Mighty)
* Kingfisher - Crushed, dumped in harbor?, same as above? (Info courtesy David_Aiken)
* DC-3 - On ground during attack (Info courtesy John Dupre)
* Aeronca - Shot at, piloted by Marguerite Gambo (Info courtesy John Dupre, David_Aiken)
* 3 K-T a/c - 3 shot down, 2 piloted by U.S. Army soldiers, 1 piloted by U.S. Navy sailor (Info courtesy John Dupre, David_Aiken)
* Interstate Cadet - flown by Cornelia Fort, a different Cadet [from the attack?] survives (Info courtesy John Dupre, David_Aiken)
* Unknown a/c - instructor & student (Info courtesy David_Aiken)
* Kingfisher - "THE BUG", from other thread here (Info courtesy Mark Allen M)
* Stearman - N49602? (Info courtesy b747cf)

Incorrectly Claimed:
* Ford Trimotor - supposed bullet holes in tail (Info courtesy Cubs, JBoyle, David_Aiken)
* Kingfisher at UH - (Info courtesy SaxMan)

Anyone know what they did with the remains of the Japanese airplanes shot down? (Other than the one above and this Val)

Third, although it's not aircraft, I figured I'd add what I had found on the surviving ships. I cataloged this in a list a while ago back on Wikipedia:
Wikipedia - Talk:Attack on Pearl Harbor wrote:
I've seen a number of claims about still existing ships present at the attack on Pearl Harbor. For example, the even the home page of Historic Ships in Baltimore, Taney's parent organization, claims that it is "The Last Surviving Warship of Pearl Harbor" when it is in fact technically not a warship, and was actually in Honolulu Harbor during the attack and not Pearl Harbor as the other 2 named survivors were. (The museum's specific page on the Taney is a bit more correctly nuanced.) Or consider the link for YT-153 below, which mentions 2 other surviving tugs from the attack, but fails to mention the Taney. (Perhaps they meant to say there were 2 other surviving ships, which would explain the exclusion of the Taney.)
I'm certain that 3 of the following 4 ships were present during the attack and still survive. The fourth I don't even have a name for - the only evidence I have for it's existence is from the reference for YT-153. Anyway, the ships are:
* USCGC Taney (WHEC-37) - a coast guard cutter on display in Baltimore. [1]
* USS Hoga (YT-146) - a tug currently in Suisun Bay but destined for the Arkansas Inland Maritime Museum. [2]
* USS YT-153 - another tug apparently still in use as a dive boat in Rhode Island. [3]
* An unnamed mystery tug according to the link for YT-153 above. ("Two other tugs from that day are still with us, but are no longer operable.")
There's also the battleships Arizona, Utah and Oklahoma of course, but they usually aren't counted since they are just wrecks now. (They are no longer "floating" as it were) Are there any I missed? Does anyone know what the mystery tug is? -Noha307 (talk) 22:40, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

I missed the fact that the USS Pennsylvania is a wreck at Bikini Atoll in my above notes. (Thanks to battle)

Someone reminded me of the midget subs, I hadn't considered the Japanese ships. The 5 midget sub's fates are:
* I-16tou - discovered outside Pearl Harbor entrence in 1994-2001, IDed , likely dumped there after being inadvertantly removed from West Loch after the disaster there
* I-18tou - damaged by depth charges, abandoned by crew in Keehi Lagoon, raised in 1960 by US Navy, on display at the Imperial Japanese Naval Academy
* I-20tou - sunk by gunfire from USS Ward, discovered in 2002 5 miles outside Pearl Harbor (first shots fired in the Pacific War, gun that sank the sub)
* I-22tou - entered harbor and fired 2 torpedoes, both of which missed, rammed and sunk by USS Monaghan, used as fill in new pier construction, uncovered and reburied in 1952, crew remains still inside
* I-24tou/Ha-19 - captured along w/ first Japanese POW of WWII, now on display at the National Museum of the Pacific War

Whew, that was exhausting! Hope it helps.

I found these excellent research articles on J-Aircraft.com a while back and finally now bothered myself to add them. The first article lists crash sites Japanese aircraft shot down in the raid and gives details for each. The second article is an analysis of a of specific Zero crash site. The third article is an analysis of artifacts from a specific Kate that crashed at the Navy hospital. The fourth article is a collection of photos of various Japanese aircraft remains.


Apparently, a man by the name of David Aiken has composed a list of every aircraft from every side (including civilian) airborne within 300 miles of Pearl Harbor on December 7th!


Looks like I have been doing redundant work.

EDIT: Re-titled section to "Incorrectly Claimed", moved U-H Kingfisher, added/changed Waco UIC, added note about USS Pennsylvania, added Stearman. -13/12/12
EDIT 2: Added links to J-Aircraft research articles on surviving relics. -07/07/13
EDIT 3: Chuck Greenhill's J2F-4 Duck confirmed, accordingly transferred to "Confirmed" section, added link to Warbird Depot Article. -27/01/14
EDIT 4: Eliminate duplicated SBD entry under "Survivors" section, add details and link to report to updated entry. -27/01/14
EDIT 5: Add information on David Aiken's work and links to a forum post and his website. -27/01/14

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Last edited by Noha307 on Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:07 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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