Russell Group ME 109 Take Off Incident (no injuries)

Simcoe Warrior · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:36 am

richkolasa wrote:

Simcoe Warrior wrote:

richkolasa wrote:

Man, I wish I still lived in Lodi, NJ. If you've ever heard of "the Sopranos", THAT is LODI (some filmed there)...

The Canadian "authorities" are a joke.

Rich

Do you really have enough knowledge of the laws up here to be making that kind of claim?

Funny that you should edit my quote! Not surprising, though.

Saying that something "is a joke" would seem to point anyone to the inevitable conclusion that this is an opinion. Had I said "they are a corrupt enterprise", that would be something else.

The fact that "the authorities" have let this idiot not only keep these obstructions up for over a year without recourse, but let him add 15' to the top of one would point me to believe that my statement reflects the self-evident.

Oh, let me guess; "I'm an officer with so-and-so division of blah-blah-blah, and I resent...". Save it, okay. Get some common sense up there with regard to this issue, huh. Before a good pilot dies because of a cretin.

Rich

First of all, my snipping your quote doesn't remove the initial stupidity of your statement/opinion.

What's interesting is that you still haven't answered the question, so I'll pose it to you once more, do you really have enough knowledge of the laws up here to label Canadian authorities a joke?

I'm guessing no, since your reply is nothing short rambling jibberish. As far as common sense goes, making derogatory blanket statements about something that you clearly know nothing about might also fit that bill.

Simcoe Warrior · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:41 am

mebrown20 wrote:

I wanted to share some photos with all of you that might help clear up some of the confusion. I had my wife stop by the unpaved road leading to the poles today on our way out of town and snapped some photos. The first one is the road leading to the poles. The big pole is on the right, then the road, which is about 7 foot wide, then the end of the runway. The lighter colored grass at the left of the photo is the runway end.

I truly hope this situation is resolved in favor of the Rusells. This was my 4th time at the show, and I enjoy it so much every time. This American citizen has made many great Canadian friends at the shows each year. I even learned how to give directions to the nearest Timmy's! I hope these few photos help until someone can post a better and more complete record.

Nice job, those photos explain a lot.

Simcoe Warrior · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:41 am

mebrown20 wrote:

I wanted to share some photos with all of you that might help clear up some of the confusion. I had my wife stop by the unpaved road leading to the poles today on our way out of town and snapped some photos. The first one is the road leading to the poles. The big pole is on the right, then the road, which is about 7 foot wide, then the end of the runway. The lighter colored grass at the left of the photo is the runway end.

I truly hope this situation is resolved in favor of the Rusells. This was my 4th time at the show, and I enjoy it so much every time. This American citizen has made many great Canadian friends at the shows each year. I even learned how to give directions to the nearest Timmy's! I hope these few photos help until someone can post a better and more complete record.

Nice job, those photos explain a lot.

Michel Lemieux · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:45 am

I'm still curious.............

And not to start a small fire or to point any fingers.

Knowing very well the pressure to put on the show with all the $$ invested.

Why use the field I.E. taking of & landing knowing the "obviously know" obstructions ?

Yes it's wrong to intentionaly do this and deliberately put obstructions ...... :roll:

But also taking the risk of using the field in these conditions is another one.

Question: ??????

Seing the pictures & not being a pilot.

I have seen a lot of airfield with difficult approach & landing patterns with obstructions. IS THIS the case here with the pictured obstructions ? Or even with the obstructions, would you consider this a "safe" area to operate ?

Knowing well the hazzards of operation of these lovely bird.........

Pardon the French Canadian spelling :wink:

Forgotten Field · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:15 am

I think the guy is a jerk for putting up the poles. But unless the pilot was totally unaware of his surroundings, as relates to the statement in US FAR's that a pilot is required to know all details of every flight, I think it is on the pilot. Again, I'm not saying anything to excuse the owner of the property who saw fit to create an obstruction for airplanes- personally, I'd have gone on the property and cut them down myself- but what were the circumstances that led the pilot to strike a known obstacle? I hope it goes well for all concerned, but I believe the pilot has some responsibility here as well.

Fleet16b · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:40 am

Michel Lemieux wrote:

I'm still curious.............

And not to start a small fire or to point any fingers.

Knowing very well the pressure to put on the show with all the $$ invested.

Why use the field I.E. taking of & landing knowing the "obviously know" obstructions ?

Yes it's wrong to intentionaly do this and deliberately put obstructions ...... :roll:

But also taking the risk of using the field in these conditions is another one.

Question: ??????

Seing the pictures & not being a pilot.

I have seen a lot of airfield with difficult approach & landing patterns with obstructions. IS THIS the case here with the pictured obstructions ? Or even with the obstructions, would you consider this a "safe" area to operate ?

Knowing well the hazzards of operation of these lovely bird.........

Pardon the French Canadian spelling :wink:

Being someone that has flown in and out of this field alot, the poles are actually no more a threat than say trees etc that you find at the end of some strips.
As I have said earlier , there were other circumstances happening during take off that contributed to the situation.
I will not get into them here as it is not my place to make statements during an ongoing investigation.
The idiot next door put up the poles in an attempt to shut down any flying however given the length of the runway, the height of the poles generally don't really bother most of us that fly in and out of there

Merlinmagic · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:05 am

Indeed there were circumstances that happened during the take-off which will come out in due course. It is wholly inappropriate to comment on them just now - particularly as the matter is a subject of investigation.

Suffice it to say the aircraft had the best set of hands on the controls at the time.

MM

richkolasa · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:30 am

Simcoe Warrior wrote:

richkolasa wrote:

Simcoe Warrior wrote:

richkolasa wrote:

Man, I wish I still lived in Lodi, NJ. If you've ever heard of "the Sopranos", THAT is LODI (some filmed there)...

The Canadian "authorities" are a joke.

Rich

Do you really have enough knowledge of the laws up here to be making that kind of claim?

Funny that you should edit my quote! Not surprising, though.

Saying that something "is a joke" would seem to point anyone to the inevitable conclusion that this is an opinion. Had I said "they are a corrupt enterprise", that would be something else.

The fact that "the authorities" have let this idiot not only keep these obstructions up for over a year without recourse, but let him add 15' to the top of one would point me to believe that my statement reflects the self-evident.

Oh, let me guess; "I'm an officer with so-and-so division of blah-blah-blah, and I resent...". Save it, okay. Get some common sense up there with regard to this issue, huh. Before a good pilot dies because of a cretin.

Rich

First of all, my snipping your quote doesn't remove the initial stupidity of your statement/opinion..

Your opinion, which is pretty worthless from what I see.

Quote:

What's interesting is that you still haven't answered the question, so I'll pose it to you once more, do you really have enough knowledge of the laws up here to label Canadian authorities a joke?

As far as common sense goes, making derogatory blanket statements about something that you clearly know nothing about might also fit that bill.

Okay, Sim* Warrior, let me answer. YES, I know enough about the laws of Canada to state that the "authorities" are a joke. I have sources who are "in the know" in Canada, England, Ireland, and Australia. Happy?

Oh, wait, those sources don't include envious cretins who think anyone with more money or power than they are is somehow "wrong" in anything they do, so maybe you won't be happy. I CARE!

My reply was in English, and down here in the States we have/had freedom of speech. Of course I'm so sure that you never had an opinion on George Bush, or anyting else American, right?

I stated my OPINION that putting up a pole, and then extending it higher in order to possibly cause an innocent person to crash an aircraft and maybe lose their life is stupid. My opinion is that you are also STUPID, since you seem to support such idiocy (as well as the worthless "authorities" who've apparently refused to do something about it, hence this nearly-tragic accident occurred).

Did you learn your cognitive-skills in RCMP camp, or "on the street"?

Once again, LOOK UP SELF-EVIDENT in the dictionary, if you know what that is.

Rich

Dan K · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:37 am

Errr... Would it be bad timing to report that the Russell folks have recently (June 9) informed EAA that they are still planning to attend OSH with the Me-109E?

Fleet16b · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:38 pm

Dan K wrote:

Errr... Would it be bad timing to report that the Russell folks have recently (June 9) informed EAA that they are still planning to attend OSH with the Me-109E?

Mr Russell attending our pre show pilot briefing on the Sunday and made a statement about the ME109.
Loosely quoted: "we are committed to repairing the wing and may take it off to do so. The aircraft will flu again."

Given the resources and finaces at his disposal, it would be no suprise to me to see the aircraft back in the air quite quickly however Mr Russell did not estimate a repair completion date.

fotobass · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:35 pm

Hey, this is great! We can now snipe at each other in threads where we ought to be in complete universal agreement!

Allow me to summarize...

Poles and poleplacer bad.

Pilot, runway, and aircraft good.

Canada either good or bad.

Robbie Roberts · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:42 pm

fotobass wrote:

Hey, this is great! We can now snipe at each other in threads where we ought to be in complete universal agreement!

Allow me to summarize...

Poles and poleplacer bad.

Pilot, runway, and aircraft good.

Canada either good or bad.

You forgot to say "Eh?" at the end of the Canadia statament, As in "Canadia either good or bad, eh?"

Robbie, the shoe ducking (apologies to Mudge, the Forgiving)

DoraNineFan · **Joined:** Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:37 pm **Posts:** 662

I would like this thread to remain an informative discussion on what, why, and how the accident happened--and for any updates on potential criminal charges or legal action (such that can be divulged publicly.)

I hope that any p*ssing matches can be kept offline or in private messages.

This is a serious matter and we are thankfully not morning the loss of a pilot and very rare aircraft.

Michel Lemieux · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:30 pm

Fleet16b

Quote:

Being someone that has flown in and out of this field alot, the poles are actually no more a threat than say trees etc that you find at the end of some strips.

Tks, that is what I was curious to know.

richkolasa · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:26 pm

Quote:

Being someone that has flown in and out of this field alot, the poles are actually no more a threat than say trees etc that you find at the end of some strips.

Hmm, it would seem that a tree, having quite a bit of width and having dark green leaves would be quite a bit more visible than a 4-6" wide pole that is light-colored. Of course, I've never landed or taken off at that field (just a couple dozen ones here in the States that have telephone poles/wires or other obstructions at the end of the runway), so the point is I guess moot (apparently Niagara is the land of "Magic Grits" and other earthly abnormalities, like where narrow white poles are as easy to see as big green trees).

Down here in NJ, if I'm doing 100 mph climbing out, I might actually have a harder time seeing a 6" wide white poll than a 25' wide green tree. Must be my eyes.

I'm just curious, by the way. Why must every one of you Canadian posters mention Mr. Russell's "resources"? It's hilarious, like he is opposite to all those "poor" warbird owners like Paul Allen, Mike Potter, Jerry Yagen, Dan Friedkin, etc.

Rich

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Russell Group ME 109 Take Off Incident (no injuries)

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