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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:32 pm 
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I've been to LSFM a few times over the years and I love going there. I really hope they do rebuild it and I hope that I can take some time from work to help with the rebuild when it comes.

I would selfishly suggest that they consider moving up here to Tyler in East Texas. Tyler Pounds Field has lots of room, currently houses the Tyler Historic Aviation Museum which has a decent static collection of aircraft. Also, when the Collings Foundation tour stopped here, there wasn't an empty seat on any of the flights during the two and a half days they were here.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:42 pm 
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A suggestion (plea?) to the fine folks at LSFM:

Bring Thunderbird to the DFW area and sell Flight Experiences! With the right media coverage to get the word out on the Museum's plight, people will be eager to help out with donations. Every B-17 operator does well in the DFW area. You're certain to rake in plenty of much-needed cash to help get the Museum back on its feet. I'll come out and volunteer as ramp crew and tour guide for you, and I'll pay for a Flight Experience for myself. If you want, I'll talk to our VFM staff and see if we'd be interested in hosting your visit (we've hosted tour stops for visiting aircraft before).

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:24 pm 
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skymstr02 wrote:
Flying Pencil wrote:
Salt is only corrosive when wet.

The faster they can dry out everything, the better.
Then when ready wash it off in tanks and hoses.


Have you ever been in Galveston? The salt is always wet. I worked at the Musem for 6 years. I lived a block from the beach and ten blocks from the Museum. The LSFM is between two large bodies of water, less than one mile one way, and less than two miles the other way, and the wind blows salt water spray from either way. The humidity seldom goes below 60% at any time. A polished unprotected propeller blade will have corrosion appear overnight, when left outside.
If it doesn't rain after a month, the salt builts up on electrical transformers, they short out and catch the power poles on fire. The electric company has tanker trucks with pumps and nozzles to drive around and wash the transformers with fresh water every couple of weeks if it doesn't rain.

The walls and roof have been compromised at the hangar, and I can assure you that the corrosion process has begun already.


Good point and you are right, the conditions for corrosion are ripe even if they where not wet. If they where cautions, then the airframes where treated withe Corrosion X or ACF-50, and that will significantly reduce the corrosion issue, but cannot stop it all.

But for sure, the sooner they can wash down the frames and take it somewhere dry the better, and it will be a huge challenge.

GL LSFM!

BTW, anyone think of calling Kermit for his advice on post-hurricane rebuild?



If LSFM is rebuilt in Galveston, you will have the same threat again, and insurance will not replace one of a kind historical artifacts (not to mention insurance policy costs). The USAF may want to take its B-58 back.
Effectively and practically, Galveston can no longer host an air museum.

BUT
Galveston can host air shows and fly-ins!

As to they comment of only flyable aircraft in Galveston:
What if the aircraft is down for maintenance? It might as well be a static model. It is not worth the risk.


I am not being negative, just practical. It is risky to have a museum only 3 feet above sea level.

S!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:30 pm 
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Flying Pencil wrote:
BTW, anyone think of calling Kermit for his advice on post-hurricane rebuild?


Let's see, what did Kermit learn from Hurricane Andrew:

1) A lot of his extremely rare aircraft were severely damaged and still haven't been rebuilt some 17 years later now, as we speak.

2) He moved his collection from Tamiami specifically because of the hurricane threat. He now has the new Fantasy of Flight Museum in "Orlampa", away from the coastline.

3) It costs a LOT of money!

4) See # 3.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:39 pm 
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Flying Pencil wrote:
As to they comment of only flyable aircraft in Galveston:
What if the aircraft is down for maintenance? It might as well be a static model. It is not worth the risk.


I agree. It would not be practical to have the main museum in one location and the flyable aircraft in another. When people visit the main museum, they want to see the flyable aircraft in the same visit. It is for this reason, that the CAF in Midland, at HQ, has a "rotating tour" schedule for select aircraft to "pay their dues" with their presence at Midland. The tourists don't want to go to Midland and find out most of the aircraft are scattered throughout the United States. They paid good money to visit the museum and they want to see something. LSFM could heed this lesson learned by the CAF.

The risk is too high to have flyable aircraft at Galveston. What if it breaks, just prior to another Hurricane coming through? Unfortunately 60 year old recip powered aircraft are not as reliable as modern or jet aircraft. It's not just a matter of "firing her up and flying out". The LSFM's Spitfire was temporarily down for maintenance at Galveston. That Spitfire alone is probably worth at least 2 to 3 Million USD. Now multiply that times 5 to 10 aircraft and you can see we are talking about HUGE amounts of money. Is it worth the risk?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:39 pm 
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I just heard on the news that it will be at least another week before anyone is let back in! Many folks won't be allowed to rebuild.

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 Post subject: LSFM Spitfire
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:34 am 
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Very sad news and heartbreaking pictures.

So does anyone know if the Spitfire was still at the museum and/or damaged?


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 Post subject: Re: LSFM Spitfire
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:39 am 
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ALK wrote:
Very sad news and heartbreaking pictures.

So does anyone know if the Spitfire was still at the museum and/or damaged?


I have not seen photos of it, but both the Spitfire and the Hurricane fuselage were there.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:56 pm 
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More photos airport.

A lot of other antique aircraft caught in storm.

http://www.aopa.org/flightplanning/articles/2008/080917galveston.html

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 Post subject: Never Surrender!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:26 pm 
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My heart goes out to the folks that have lost so much from Ike. The remains of the storm actually made it all the way up to St. Louis and beyond. One of my plastic film suppliers had six feet of water in his factory on Sunday morning. His crew was able to swim from the building but the creek came up so fast they had no time to shut off equipment. Ike was so large and so wet that it dumped enough rain on our valley to cause us to shut our valves where the local lake and creek flow to the Missouri River. The seep water got the East end of our East/West grass runway so it's closed. Hurricane Ike was a huge and destructive storm but I say all you Texans in Galveston might want to consider wading out into the surf, raising your right hand, and then give Mother Nature the finger! Rebuild it right where it is, just keep everything flyable and have crews ready to get more out next time a hurricane spins into town.

Never Surrender!!!
Creve Coeur Airport. Early Spring 1993.
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August 2nd 1993. 15-17 feet of Missouri River current. Flooded for 30 days.
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Creve Coeur Airport from my Stearman this week. Never Give Up!!!!
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 Post subject: Re: Never Surrender!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:28 pm 
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astixjr wrote:
Hurricane Ike was a huge and destructive storm but I say all you Texans in Galveston might want to consider wading out into the surf, raising your right hand, and then give Mother Nature the finger! Rebuild it right where it is, just keep everything flyable and have crews ready to get more out next time a hurricane spins into town.

Never Surrender!!!


But why even take the risk?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:44 pm 
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You take a risk every time you open your front door. There are plenty of floods, tornadoes, earthquakes around the country. A lot of folks say why take the risk of flying aircraft when they could crash, well here is a good example of ones that were sitting on the ground and severely damaged. There is a risk in just existing so you can either live in a bomb shelter and worry about how long the air will last or you can be out in the sunshine enjoying yourself with your SPF.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:21 pm 
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My first Part 135 flying job went away after Hurricane Hugo scooped up the aircraft and tossed them upside down in a pile. In the good ol'
days the US military and others never let aircraft go down for deep maintenance during Hurricane and monsoon season. It's just common sense to be able to fly them out of harm's way if given 3 or 4 days notice.
My prayer is that the LSFM is properly insured for such losses. These airplanes can't wait 15 or 20 years to be gone through and cleaned up like the Weeks aircraft. I hope that the hangar can be declared a total loss and not be rebuilt so close to the ocean. Maybe the aircraft stranded there can be written off as having more than economic repair and bought by the insurance company. then they can be resold to the public and properly restored and saved.
If LSFM had fewer aircraft, they could keep them all in flying condition and rotate 3 or 4 in Galveston. They need an auxiliary location safe and salt free to do deep maintenance and store anything that isn't going to be kept on flight status.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:54 pm 
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one difference between the Weeks planes after the hurricane and LSFM planes is this, Weeks planes had wind damage and damage from the hangar falling on them. The LSFM planes have been uinder salt water to the tune of 6-8 feet. Once they get in there, they need to be flushed out with fresh water and then sprayed with something like ACF 50, LPS 4, Corrosion X, until they have time to go thru them


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:06 pm 
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Thanks to all for your concern, encouragement and defiance in the face of adversity.
Point number one. ALL LONE STAR STAFF AND MEMBERS ARE SAFE, if a bit frazzled. Rare machines can be replaced, with another or with something else but in my 3 1/2 years at Lone Star, the people I've met and the friendships I've made is what really makes it. I feel that the people are our greatest asset.
I read all the way through before responding. There have been many valid point made here, but it's just to soon to know anything. Galveston is unsafe for humans right now. We just have to suck it up and keep priorities straight. If the hangar had been spared but with big human loss among memership, I don't think I'd have wanted to come back.
Yes, that is Sino Swearingen airframe One. And if you look at the chap holding his hand up to the Cessna's tail,look to the left in the background. See the RAF roundel on green/gray? That's the Spitfire.
I don't have an answer, but when the island is opened enough for LS volunteers to go in, the four of us here in Brenham are ready. And we drive 130 miles one way, so distance won't keep everyone down.
And one more point....life is too short to go through it hiding from risks. Just an opinion.
Thanks again for all the support. Right now just your encouragement and concern is a big boost.

Doug Ratchford, 'Canso42'

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