Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:19 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine Luftwaffe Resource Center WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 117 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:27 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm
Posts: 5321
I'll tell you what! I'll give you an explanation, even though you don't deserve one, I'll give you one anyway. The reason I posted those photos in this (over a year old since someone last posted to it) thread, is first, those P-51D photos are hands down simply the very best quality vintage WW2 photos you'll ever be fortunate to see and I challenge you or anyone to find better. Second, I used the search command, and without spending hours trying to find the best thread to post to, I found this one and thought those members who matter and appreciate photos such as these, would be grateful to see them. Could I have found a more appropriate thread? Sure!, but I chose this one (and yes I 'get it' as far as the thread title is concerned so spare me your lectures). Third, I've already saturated the place with too many threads so sometimes I find it better to post photos of interest to someone else's thread as a courtesy. Last, I hate, and rarely waste this much time explaining myself to anyone, let alone you.

If you bothered to notice, there's been a few members who seemed to have no problem with me posting those photos to this thread. They actually appreciated the gesture. So settle down, relax and show some appreciation for some of us who try to do good on this forum. Try to learn sometime.

Enough of this sh*t now. Back to watching the game.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:18 pm 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club

Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 1:05 am
Posts: 2922
I related news, the planet stopped spinning on its axis, the seasons were reversed, people stopped loving, animals took over the earth, the polarity of the magnets was misteriously absent and all of this, because some glaring idiot (literary license, OK?), posted some photos where they should not have been posted. The humanity! Goodbye western civilization, we hardly knew ya!

Meanwhile, people in so many countries are starving to death -literally- economies all over are tanking, wars are being fought, people still die of curable diseases, many are living as someone said, "lives of quiet desperation" but the most salient point of the day is... your photos offend my sensitivities because they were posted in the wrong thread... Someone divided by zero!!!!!!

Yaizuuuuuusssss!!!!! pop2 pop2 pop2 pop2

OK, on to the next mini-crisis :drink3: :drink3: :drink3:


Saludos,


Tulio

_________________
Why take the best part of life out of your life, when you can have life with the best part of your life in your life?

I am one of them 'futbol' people.

Will the previous owner has pics of this double cabin sample

GOOD MORNING, WELCOME TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Press "1" for English.
Press "2" to disconnect until you have learned to speak English.


Sooooo, how am I going to know to press 1 or 2, if I do not speak English????


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:32 pm 
Offline
Group Captain

Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 5:11 pm
Posts: 964
Location: Northern Colorado
Mike wrote:
:( Indeed there is. This thread is specifically about Mustangs still flying. There's a very obvious clue in the thread title.



Really?????


Image


Thanks for posting those pics Mark. Even though the thread title is Most Authentic Mustang Flying, I liked seeing the pictures you posted and had no issue with your post. Please keep posting pictures. Your's are some of the best in this forum.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:02 am 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 2:59 pm
Posts: 1554
Location: Safford, Az
Whats the omission Mr. Mark?? Question for John; When did they start with the canopy pull out handle instead of the square finger grab opening as on this one? Are there any Mustangs flying with this style canopy frame? Also when did they stop using the solid nav light lens's to the small ones? I have a Red one that I cherish.
Thanks for the photos Mark! pop2


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:08 am 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!

Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:40 pm
Posts: 1082
All I know is that I immediately saved the pictures to my hard drive for future reference and I really didn't give a rat's *** which thread they were posted to. If some justification has to be made for them being here (and none is needed, IMHO) then how about because they provide a nearly perfect reference for the external appearance of a totally stock P-51D?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:46 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm
Posts: 5321
Mark Allen M wrote:
Nice review John. pop2
... But there is one 'omission' that is quite evident.

I retract my 'omission' ... What I thought was a missing inboard gun is actually not missing at all. It just looks that way because the inboards are actually 'inboard' in the wing. If that made any sense.

I have a set of color Corsair photos that are of the same quality as these are. Problem is I best not post them in anyone's existing thread for fear of Tulio's wrath .... :wink: :axe:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:02 am 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 2:59 pm
Posts: 1554
Location: Safford, Az
Mark, the "inboard" gun is not inboard but sits slightly aft about 6 inches so that the ammo belt can feed into it. Carry on pop1
I can't wait for them Cussair pix!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:18 am 
Offline
Flight Lieutenant

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:45 pm
Posts: 134
I really need to see the Corsair pictures before I die.

I don't care what the other guy said, I appreciate what Mark brings to this community. Which is nothing but bliss. :spit


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:15 am 
Offline
Newly minted Mustang Pilot
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:41 pm
Posts: 1281
Location: Everywhere
Here are the gems of the Mustang survivors. These airframes spent time in theater...at least modern research tools show them in theater. In a perfect world these would be restored to factory stock...static or flyers. I'm all for flying them, believe me, keep them flying. BUT some of these have a certain significance that deserves to be shown beyond our years. 352nd FG Miss Helen, The Millie G, Mary Mine...these airframes have a great documented history. It would be cool to walk in to the USAFM or NASM and see these on display in all their glory...restored to the standard illustrated in Marks' great slides. In the real world they are at the mercy of the owners. These are from my notes.

Jim


• P-51C-10NT 42-103293 N251MX 359th FG 8th AF 370th FS, crashed during acro 2 mi NE of RAF Knettishall, Norfolk, England May 1, 1944. Aircraft condemned salvage battle damage May 3, 1944. Registered to the Collings Foundation N251MX
• P-51B-10NA 42-106638 N5087F 361st FG 8th AF Impatient Virgin Crashed June 22 1945 near Downham Market Code E9-R
• P-51B-1NA 43-24837 Crashed UK pre 1945 Crashed June 10th 1944 near Beckley England, aircraft was based at Staplehurst England Rebuilt Berlin Express
• P-51D-5NA 44-13521 G-MRLL 339th FG 8th AF Marinell
• P-51D-10NA 44-13954 G-UAKE 55th FG 8th AF Da Quake
• P-51D-10NA 44-14574 479th FG 436th FS 8th AF Little Zippie
• P-51D-20NA 44-63350 N51TK 15th AF Vet Rebuilt as Lou IV
• P-51D-20NA 44-63675 N1751D Sierra Sue
• P-51D-20NA 44-63701 N26PW Delivered 8th AF moved to Sweden Rebuilt as Grim Reaper
• P-51D-20NA 44-63807 N20MS Delivered to the 8th AF no known assignment eventually Rebuilt as Daddys Girl
• P-51D-20NA 44-63810 N451BC 357th FG 362nd FS 8th AF Rebuilt as Angels Playmate During WWII flew as Stump Jumper, Displayed at Norton AFB CA, Ed Maloney Planes of Fame, Robin Collard, Jerry Hayes, eventually to Joseph Newsome.
• P-51D-20NA 44-63864 N251L 78th FG Twilight Tear
• P-51D-20NA 44-63865 N151TF Delivered to the 8th AF, no known assignment eventually rebuilt as a TF Tempus Fugit
• P-51D-20NA 44-63871 N9772F Delivered to the 8th AF, then to Sweden currently at Le Bourget
• P-51D-20NA 44-63992 Delivered to the 8th AF Swedish AF Museum
• P-51D-20NA 44-64005 N51CK 361st FG 376th FS Mary MineGeorge Vanden Heuvel E9 Z Under rebuild?
• P-51D-20NA 44-72051 N68JR Delivered to the 8th AF Then Sweden Restored as Sweet Revenge
• P-51D-20NA 44-72059 N951HB 8th AF 364 FG 384 FS coded 5Y P at Wegmans
• P-51D-20NA 44-72086 N251PW Delivered to the 8th AF Rebuilt as Baby Duck
• P-51D-20NA 44-72123 Delivered to the 8th AF "Millie G" 343rd FS, 55th FG, coded CY G Ed Giller, this aircraft is on a pole in the Dominican Republic
• P-51D-20NA 44-72216 G-BIXL 8th AF 352nd FG 487th FS Miss Helen
• P-51D-20NA 44-72339 N251JC 401st FS, 370th FG, 9th Air Force The Brat
• P-51D-20NA 44-72364 N723FH 353rd FG 352nd FS Eupopa Epops
• P-51D-25NA 44-72395 N395WR 8th AF 479 FG 435 FS
• P-51D-20NA 44-72438 N7551T Delivered to the 8th AF
• P-51D-20NA 44-72483 N151DM 9th AF 354th FG 356th FS Rebuilt as Ridge Runner
• P-51D-25NA 44-72777 N151D 52nd FG 3th FS Doc Watson
• P-51D-25NA 44-72922 PH-VDF Robin Olds’ Scat VII although rebuilt twice as a TF
• P-51D-25NA 44-72942 N5427V 12th AF rebuilt as Petie 2nd
• P-51D-25NA 44-73149 G-BTCD Assigned to the 357th FG 8th AF rebuilt as Ferocious Frankie
• P-51D-25NA 44-73275 N119H Delivered to the 8th AF not assigned rebuilt as Never Miss
• P-51D-25NA 44-73287 N951M Delivered to the 8th AF rebuilt as Worry Bird
• P-51D-25NA 44-73683 N5551D Delivered to the 8th AF rebuilt as Bunny
• P-51K-10NT 44-12016 N98CF Fragile But Agile

_________________
www.spiritof44.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:52 am 
Offline
Lance Corporal

Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 12:12 pm
Posts: 36
Location: Manchester
JohnTerrell wrote:
You can tell the aircraft had been in action for quite a while - still sporting the ID-bands from the summer/fall of '44, but now photographed in the late spring/possibly very early summer of '45. The tail serial may have been touched-up - it is however the standard, distinctive, NAA Dallas application (which differed compared to the Inglewood examples) and with standard NAA letter-type/stencil form for the tail serial numbers. The data block may have simply worn away with numerous repeated washing/polishing off exhaust stains after each mission (or maybe, perhaps, even earlier artwork that had been painted in that location, but was later removed). Actually many of the factory-applied stencils are worn/washed/polished away, while the paint of the factory-applied stars & bars is still holding up very well too.

As this one is such an early version of the -D, it still has a white recognition light on the spine (just aft of the antenna mast), not seen after the D-5/K-1 production blocks. It has the early, curved (factory-installed) dorsal fin fillet. It has been post-factory modified, in the field, with a K-14 gunsight and the APS-13 tail warning set. Inside the Dallas-canopy is a P-38 mirror (just the mirror, not the fairing) which has been bolted to the plexiglass. The blue applied to the wheel hubs is another of the colors/paints you often see on 359th FG Mustangs - in some other cases, more predominantly. When viewed in the full/high resolution, you can clearly see the random factory use of both silver anodized and yellow iridite rivets, the bright areas of acid-etching on the metal where spot welding was done, the yellowing of varnish covering at least one of the stencils (one of the few that remain), and a post-factory/in-field stencil applied just aft of the fuselage fuel tank filler cap - reading the standard message of "Service With 130 Grade Fuel". I also really like the brush marks up and down the rear edge of the fuselage/tail, from the painting of the rudder - they masked-it pretty well around the serial number, with some nice straight edges, but they didn't keep the paint only on the rudder.


Hi John,

Your P-51 knowledge is remarkable, many thanks for providing this detailed information.

Happy Holidays, Steve

_________________
shuck


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:54 am 
Offline
Corporal

Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:47 am
Posts: 23
also P-51D-20NA - 44-72035

1944: Dec 21, accepted, USAF
1945: Jan 04, ferry-flight, Inglewood CA - Newark NJ
1945: Jan 24, ferry-boat, MTO
1945: USAAF Vet, 385th Fighter Squadron, 364th FG, coded 5E B
1945: USAAF Vet, rep. in 332 FG (Red Tails)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:39 am 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:23 pm
Posts: 2103
Location: Atlanta, GA
I like and appreciate the vintage photos as they help illustrate the criteria relevant to the point of this thread.

From the guy who started the thread,
Ken

_________________
"Take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:08 am 
Offline
Corporal

Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:47 am
Posts: 23
also P-51D-5NA 44-13571 355th FG 354th Fighter Squadron, Steeple Morden
displayed in USAFAM Eglin AFB as a Cavalier Aircraft Corporation 68-15796


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:04 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 3:57 pm
Posts: 1290
Location: Minnesota
steve dickey wrote:
Question for John; When did they start with the canopy pull out handle instead of the square finger grab opening as on this one? Are there any Mustangs flying with this style canopy frame? Also when did they stop using the solid nav light lens's to the small ones? I have a Red one that I cherish.


Hey Steve,

The early D-model canopy framing, with the square slot on the port-side, went away during early P-51D-20-NA production, at which point the later design, with the two push/pull handles was introduced. The only P-51D flying today, that I'm aware of, that has the early canopy framing is Tom Ungurean's P-51D "Cripes A' Mighty" (restored by Midwest Aero) - which, however being a D-25 airframe, is restored to represent a D-15 which had the early canopy.

Regarding the different types of wingtip nav lights, both types were used throughout P-51D/K production, and were installed based on availability, much like the two different seat types - these being government-furnished/sub-contracted hardware.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:28 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 3:57 pm
Posts: 1290
Location: Minnesota
Another great one you should add to your list, Jim, is P-51K-10-NT 44-12125, which is displayed at the Netherlands AF Museum. Although it has never had much attention put its way, it did serve with the 82nd FS, 78th FG (Duxford), and was coded MX-U. It has never been fully restored, and the interior is just like a time capsule. It is only just several serial number digits away from another of my favorite preserved and unrestored Mustangs, the P-51K-10-NT 44-12116 "Second Fiddle" (another magnificent time capsule - details of which aided in the restoration of "Sierra Sue II"). What's really cool about these two, is that having rolled off the assembly line so close to one another, and as part of the same production block, they were absolutely identical when they left the factory - and they still appear very much so internally today (including both cockpits). However, while 44-12125 was sent to England and ended up serving with the 78th FG, 44-12116 remained in the States and was used as a trainer. As a result, 44-12116 is still almost exactly as it was when it left the factory (save for some missing parts), while 44-12125 has some modifications that were made while it was seeing action with the 78th FG - including in-field modifications to mount the K-14 gunsight and throttle (which it still has), including a 3-inch slot that was cut into the top of the instrument panel shroud to move the K-14 farther forward, which was a common 8th AF P-51D/K modification for those fitted with the K-14 - as well as the APS-13 tail warning set, also installed in the field. As a State-side trainer, 44-12116 "Second Fiddle" never received those modifications.

(Both of those aircraft also still have the early fabric-covered elevators - something that the restored P-51K-10-NT 44-12016 "Fragile But Agile", also just a few serial digits away, still had as well up until its latest restoration when they were replaced with the later all-metal units (it still had fabric-covered elevators when it was thought to be and painted as "Twilight Tear" and based in the UK). This is one detail that was overlooked/not covered when the original debate was taking place over whether or not it was really the original "Fragile But Agile" - the original "Fragile But Agile" would have had fabric elevators, as this airframe did up until its latest restoration, while the original "Twilight Tear", which it is now known not to have been, would not, being a P-51D-20-NA.)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 117 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Sopwith and 25 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group