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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:30 pm 
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The historical restoration standard "bar" seems higher than ever with HJGB and Upupa Epops.

Which flying Mustang is the most historically accurate? Any of the above, Cripes? Malcolm Old Crow? Lil Margaret? Someone else? Why, why not?

This is not a restoration bashing thread, nor is it questioning the use of better wiring, brakes, or anything for safety. But if you were to magically beam Rosie the Riveter into the hangar tomorrow, what would she point out as noticably different from the original product?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:48 pm 
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Hanger 11's P-51D 44-72035 Jumpin Jaques must be up there. http://www.hangar11.co.uk/mustang.php

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:07 pm 
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I would say that, if you are only referring to those which are flying, Happy Jack's Go Buggy and Upupa Epops are the epitome of historically accurate Mustang restorations. I say this due to not only their outward appearance, which is extremely accurate, but in their internals and especially the enormous amount of accessories/details that were incorporated as per the 'original' Mustangs during WWII. As you continue down it becomes rather subjective, as there are many more Mustangs out there with authentic finishes but modern cockpits, or authentic cockpits with modern finishes. For instance, Jack Roush's P-51B Old Crow was restored to be the safest it could for long distance flights, in any weather condition, therefore it is fitted out with new gauges, weather warning, IFR, GPS, and autopilot equipment. Kermit Weeks' P-51C Ina the Macon Belle on the other hand, has a finish which is far too polished, but the cockpit and internals are very stock and very detailed to factory specification.

I recall when it was big thing just to have filled, sanded and painted wings with a bare metal fuselage. Now we are getting into the realm of matching the same patina, the same paint numbers, reproducing all factory stamps and inspection stickers, stencils in the correct type faces, and even going as far as wiring the guns to the trigger button and getting the original radios installed and functioning, even though they are just there for looks. I still recall a Mike Vadeboncoeur interview in Warbirds International, in which he foresaw this exact same trend developing, back when he just finished the restoration of Cripes. He mentioned that if someone were to take a Mustang restoration to the furthest level, it would not appeal to most (obviously not entailing us) and would feature rough unpolished metal, plenty of oversprayed areas, and poor plumbing and wiring.

I would be curious to know which warbird currently flying has the largest amount of its original structure and is finished most accurately, of any type from any country, just for the sake of knowing.


Last edited by JohnTerrell on Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:36 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:08 pm 
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lestweforget wrote:
Hanger 11's P-51D 44-72035 Jumpin Jaques must be up there. http://www.hangar11.co.uk/mustang.php


Glad you mentioned this one!

If you're talking authentic and original in terms of airframe, then it must bue well up there. I was talking to someone very much involved with her today, and there's lots of original parts and structure still present.

As he often posts here, I'm sure he'll be able to contribute to this thread further!

Cheers

Paul


Last edited by Bradburger on Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:16 pm 
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It is neat what Peter Teichman has been doing with Jumpin Jaques. Recently the exterior was actually re-finished for more authenticity, and as far as I know there are plans as well to bring the interior to a more authentic condition.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:36 pm 
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I know Upupa Epops is a real combat vet, is HJGB also a vet?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:03 pm 
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I'd say Impatient Virgin ranks right up there in this category.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:12 pm 
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44-72035 was assigned to the 332nd fighter group. The 332nd became very famous as the first all Afro American manned Group known as "The Tuskegee Airmen"

This is not correct. This a/c was assigned to the 385th FS 364th FG 8th Af has 5E+B but I don't know if it has any combat missions.
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I know Upupa Epops is a real combat vet, is HJGB also a vet?

Yes and no except for maybe so south of the border scirmishes
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I'd say Impatient Virgin ranks right up there in this category.

It's nice but all the glossy paint and the painted silver put it back in the pack. Besides the dataplate what's original (a real question not a smart remark!)??

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:22 pm 
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Jesse C. wrote:
I know Upupa Epops is a real combat vet, is HJGB also a vet?


Not sure but Miss Helen and Twilight Tear are. http://www.uk-warbirds.net/warbirdhisto ... #misshelen

Would be great to hear more about Jumpin Jaques Paul. Fingers crossed.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:49 pm 
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Since the topic of paint has been raised, I rather like the looks of how they were in their 'working days', as seen in Jack Cook's pictures. They weren't all bright and shiny with 'do not touch' signs on them. Oil-streaks, exhaust-streaks, gun powder burns, mud, boot-prints - that's what they really looked like.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:57 am 
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Jesse C. wrote:
I know Upupa Epops is a real combat vet...
And in it's original wartime markings. HJGB, no matter how nice, is not THE HJGB.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:16 am 
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lestweforget wrote:
Jesse C. wrote:
I know Upupa Epops is a real combat vet, is HJGB also a vet?


Not sure but Miss Helen and Twilight Tear are. http://www.uk-warbirds.net/warbirdhisto ... #misshelen

Would be great to hear more about Jumpin Jaques Paul. Fingers crossed.


Thanks for the link!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:30 am 
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Slightly off-topic, but Epupa Epops and Miss Helen are original vets restored in colors they actually wore in service - disregarding the level of technical accuracy, how many other Mustangs actually wear their original markings (combat, trainer, whatever)?

Back on topic, not considering if the paint scheme matches the original serial (like HJGB) - I was asking which Mustangs are the most authentic, both mechanically and in overall scheme. Sounds like EuEp and HJGB are leading the pack.

Any yet to be considered? How about the EAA museum airplane?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:40 am 
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The problem, for me, is that many American warbirds, even the most authentic ones, look sometimes like replicas, because their color schemes are not so well done: not enough matt finishing, too much chrome and silver painting, wrong or unaccurate markings, letterings and colors, lack of originality (1) etc...

On the contrary, most if not all British warbirds just look like the real deal.



(1) for instance, why every P-40 must be a shark-mouthed one? Why every P-51 must be a ETO one? I say that because there are so many amazing schemes which could be possible, for instance PTO Mustangs, ANG Mustangs etc...


Last edited by ChrisDNT on Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:41 am 
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According to the link, Twighlight Tear is wearing her oridinal markings at least as is Miss Helen. I had no idea on the history of either of these aircraft. That's pretty cool! 8)

Whether or not they are restored to the caliber of HJGB is altogether different.


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