Hacks
Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:17 am
War weary B-24s & B-17s were not for the most part used has hacks Rob. But actually used has formation assembly ships. If you've got Roger Freeman's original "Mighty Eight" there are some good photos and painting of the some of the more colorful examples. In the case of the 79th FS's Bond Baby it's intended purpose was to give well deserved rides to the hard working ground crews. Bond Baby's usual pilot Was Lt Wallace Lucky Lowman who later commanded a A-! squadron in viet Nam. One of his pilots was 1Lt Rick Drury (My Secret War) owner/pilot of Sea Fury "Nuthin Special" and later a T-28B.
Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:09 am
Rob,
Much of your post is correct, but in making sure the historical record stays as straight as possible, your comment concerning "war weary" meaning an aircraft has all its armament removed and not returned to a front-line unit will need to be revised.
I've tried linking a few photos of P-47D's that served operationally with the 5th ERS in the ETO. All are clearly stenciled "WW", and just as clearly are still mounting some (if not all) armament. No garish fuselage paint either.
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery- ... Group=5ers
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery- ... Group=5ers
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery- ... Group=5ers
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery- ... Group=5ers
Much of your post is correct, but in making sure the historical record stays as straight as possible, your comment concerning "war weary" meaning an aircraft has all its armament removed and not returned to a front-line unit will need to be revised.
I've tried linking a few photos of P-47D's that served operationally with the 5th ERS in the ETO. All are clearly stenciled "WW", and just as clearly are still mounting some (if not all) armament. No garish fuselage paint either.
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery- ... Group=5ers
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery- ... Group=5ers
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery- ... Group=5ers
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery- ... Group=5ers
Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:25 am
What was the criteria for classifying an aircraft as "war weary"?
Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:23 am
I am assuming that not all WW aircraft were painted garishly or had their armament removed. I'm sure there were many more WW aircraft than the need for hacks or formation ships. My guess is those WW aircraft in military config either hadn't been stripped or converted yet or were just parked awaiting need.
As for formation ships, I was under the impression that they were painted as such to provide an easily recognizable aircraft thus perfect as a formation craft.
As for formation ships, I was under the impression that they were painted as such to provide an easily recognizable aircraft thus perfect as a formation craft.
Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:03 pm
Scott,
If you're making reference to my previous post: No, it is my understanding that aircraft (in this case P-47D's) designated as "war weary" were intentionally assigned to operate as ASR aircraft with the 5th ERS--operations starting around April/May, 1944. Armament was carried during missions, although sometimes the number of Brownings was reduced.
http://www.boxted-airfield.com/5thers.htm
If you're making reference to my previous post: No, it is my understanding that aircraft (in this case P-47D's) designated as "war weary" were intentionally assigned to operate as ASR aircraft with the 5th ERS--operations starting around April/May, 1944. Armament was carried during missions, although sometimes the number of Brownings was reduced.
http://www.boxted-airfield.com/5thers.htm
Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:20 am
I've always understood that the "War Weary" tag was applied to aircraft with a large amount of hours on the airframe to the point, the stresses of combat might not be such a good thing. I've never seen it said that armament had to be removed, although I think it was often done anyway.
The RAF for example used Spitfire IIs in the ASR role like those Jugs of the 5th ERS. Armed but modified for locating and helping downed pilots in the channel. On the off chance they could defend themselves. Clearly not the latest and greatest Spits but capable of doing the ASR job.
I seem to recall that at least one of the war weary assembly ship B24s was sent along on one of the first 1000 plane raids to help add to the numbers.
Dan
The RAF for example used Spitfire IIs in the ASR role like those Jugs of the 5th ERS. Armed but modified for locating and helping downed pilots in the channel. On the off chance they could defend themselves. Clearly not the latest and greatest Spits but capable of doing the ASR job.
I seem to recall that at least one of the war weary assembly ship B24s was sent along on one of the first 1000 plane raids to help add to the numbers.
Dan
Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:12 pm
Another oldie! 
Anyone have any more pics of brightly colored FG hacks?
Anyone have any more pics of brightly colored FG hacks?
Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:36 pm
[quote="Swiss Mustangs"]Randy
the yellow P-51B hack (great shot BTW !) is one of the many two seat conversions done at group-level using WW airframes. The 479th FG example indeed is unique in using two malcolm hoods, whereas other groups (like the 4th and 78th fore example who also had colorful two-seaters) usually used birdcage canopies.
HTH
Regards
Martin
Martin - The 355th had a 51B with exactly the same two Malcolm Hood set up. Ray Myers ex 43-6991 was modified after a belly landing in march 1945. I have a pic of it later at Gablingen and may have sent it to Peter (or vice versa). The 355th also had a field modified P-51D with dual controls as part of it's Clobber College inventory but while I have a pic of it at Gablingen with my father flying it I can't say the mod was done before VE Day.
Regards,
Bill
the yellow P-51B hack (great shot BTW !) is one of the many two seat conversions done at group-level using WW airframes. The 479th FG example indeed is unique in using two malcolm hoods, whereas other groups (like the 4th and 78th fore example who also had colorful two-seaters) usually used birdcage canopies.
HTH
Regards
Martin
Martin - The 355th had a 51B with exactly the same two Malcolm Hood set up. Ray Myers ex 43-6991 was modified after a belly landing in march 1945. I have a pic of it later at Gablingen and may have sent it to Peter (or vice versa). The 355th also had a field modified P-51D with dual controls as part of it's Clobber College inventory but while I have a pic of it at Gablingen with my father flying it I can't say the mod was done before VE Day.
Regards,
Bill