how were the tora tora tora planes constructed?

Tulio · **Joined:** Mon May 03, 2004 1:05 am **Posts:** 3236

I'm not attempting to hijack the thread, but . . . I saw the name Mauno Salo, and I haven't heard or read anything about or by him, in a very long time . . .

Saludos,

Tulio

skymstr02 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:57 am

Jerry O'Neill wrote:

Here's some of the information I have on the "Tora" birds.
There is some discrepancy with the Val n-numbers,
so I've included the ones published in the Summer 1969
edition of the A.A.H.S Journal that Steve Nelson so kindly
scanned above, along with the ones that I had.
Not sure which is correct, but I'd lean a
little to the A.A.H.S!

I can't say where they all are now, as some may have
had their N-Numbers changed, but I know there have
been losses. As an estimate, I would guess that about
1/3 have been lost over the years.

“TORA, TORA, TORA” Aircraft list.

Vals: N 56867, N 36163, N 56336 (1st one completed),
N 65873, N 56478, N 67629, N 2200S, N 54865, N 18102
Some confusion here as 3 N-Numbers, N 67208, N 27003,
N 22009, have been reported as “Tora VALs” in some accounts.

Kates: N 1264, N 2047, N 7062C, N6438D,
N 3242G, N 3752G, N 7130C, N3239G (1st one modified),
1 unknown N-number crashed in Ocean in Hawaii, pilot survived.

Zekes: N 7754, N 7757, N 4447, N 12048, N 9097,
N 296W, N 7986C, N 15795, N 15796, N 15797, N 15798,
N 15799, (One Crashed in Hawaii)

Aircraft used/made in Japan:
5 flyable aircraft built in Japan by C. Itoh Company,
3 Kates, two Zekes. None came to the US after filming.
Silver Kates and Zekes were used in the flying scenes
and for studio blue screen processing close-ups in the
cockpits. There were also approximately 25 standard
T-6’s used as back drops, some with simulated folded
wings, most painted dark green. These can be seen in
the take-off sequences and in the return to the carrier
after the second attack wave.

B-17: N 17W, N 620L, N 621L, N 3193G, N 9563Z

B-25: N9754Z (destroyed in hanger scene)

P-40: N 151U, N 1207V

PBY: N 6180 (and four additional hulks that were
destroyed)

PT-17: N 6692C (Unsure of exact N-Number)

A-24 (SBD): N 15749(not used but brought to Hawaii)

Feel free to add or correct things. (since I'm not perfect!)
and if you know which ones are still around, feel free to
work off this list to help get an eventual accurate count.

Chris;
I 'm not sure the VAL at March is owned by the Air Force.
It might still be part of Tallichet's collection, though
somebody out their will probably have the right answer.
Blue skies,
Jerry

N67208 was constructed in the early 90's from a BT-13 to resemble a VAL in Conroe, TX by Gary Hudson, Bud Warren, and others. It was also part of the Michael Bay production in 1999-2000

Jerry O'Neill · **Posted:** Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:05 am

skymstr02 wrote:

N67208 was constructed in the early 90's from a BT-13 to resemble a VAL in Conroe, TX by Gary Hudson, Bud Warren, and others. It was also part of the Michael Bay production in 1999-2000

That's probably how it got into my info.
A lot of the numbers were gathered during the dark days of THAT "Pearl Har-bore" filming!
Does anyone have information or photos on the process when they built the Conroe, TX Val?
Thanks.
Jerry

Jerry O'Neill · **Posted:** Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:16 am

BTW,
Can anyone confirm that Fred Haise, the Apollo 13 and Shuttle Astronaut, was injured in the crash of a VAL replica back in the 1970's?

I think it might have been a VAL that was painted overall green with a completely yellow cowl, but I'm not sure.
Jerry

Jerry O'Neill · **Posted:** Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:40 pm

Here's a link to the USS Yorktown's website and info on Tora Filming on the carrier.

http://www.yorktownsailor.com/yorktown/tora.htm

You'll note that at one point, 13 Zekes, Nine Vals and Nine Kates are mentioned. I wonder if anyone has the accurate number built in the US?
Jerry

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:56 pm

As far as that green Val you were talking about Jerry.

About 1/3 down the page there is a pic of the Val you were thinking of.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... S%26sa%3DN

RickH · **Posted:** Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:50 pm

DZ, do you remember which Kate was wrecked down at Kingsville ? Ted Rupel was flying it with a Navy guy in the back at the time. They drug it back to Ted's backyard and the CAFers robbed parts off of it for years before it was hauled away.

David_Aiken · **Joined:** Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:31 pm **Posts:** 403

The late Gary Hudson on loss of VAL during movie filming...Received the evening of the VAL crash:

Date: 04/18/2000 2:22:21 AM Central Daylight Time
From: Gary Hudson

Hello All:

I guess by now you have all seen the newscasts about the airplane crash at the filming of "Pearl Harbor" in Hawaii. This is to quash any rumors and let you all know what happened and what is going on now. First: The airplane that crashed was a "Val" replica being flown by Gene Armstrong. It was the "231" Val, owned by the CAF. Second: Gene is OK. He suffered a broken finger, badly lacerated lip, and a bad black eye. He is out of the emergency room and being put into a "regular" room. He is sore and banged up, but amazingly in good shape. He is expected to be out of the hospital in a couple days. Third: What happened? We were in a flight of three Vals. Lead, me #2, and Gene #3. We were flying along a line of "dummy" P-40's simulating a bomb run for the cameras. We were supposed to fly down the line and they were going to blow several P-40s and a DC-3. We had previously done 4 passes behind the Zeros, but this pass was just the three Vals. We made one pass at 100 ft to check line and clearance from obstacles. The next pass was a rehearsal pass, "at altitude" to check camera view. The final pass was a "hot, cameras rolling, smoke only" pass. We were about 20 to 30 feet above the ground, in a "V" formation with about 10 ft separation, at about 140 knots. Immediately after passing the cameras, I heard a loud thump. I glanced to my left and saw Gene's Val inverted with the left wing missing. We were climbing out and I transmitted to Lead, "2's here.".

There was a lot of talk on the radio at that time. Lead and I did a circuit and then landed. I landed short and turned off before getting to the crash scene. I still have not seen the airplane, but at that time, I assumed Gene was gone and didn't really want to go down there. Gene had struck a palm tree on the set with his left wing, about 3 feet from the tip and the entire wing separated at the wing attach points. The airplane then snapped rolled left and struck the ground in an upright position and then tumbled to inverted before coming to rest. There was no fire although the tanks were almost full. I assume it did not burn because the engine tore loose and continued about 80 feet further than the fuselage.

About 20 minutes after shutdown, I was told Gene was alive, but badly hurt and was being transported. Lastly: What caused this? I really can't say. We had been down the line several times with the Zeros and one rehearsal without a problem. Gene and I were "stacked up" from Lead so altitude should have not been a problem. Maybe Gene just drifted to his left. I don't know. Well, that's about it. About halfway through this, I had to go down and give a statement to Disney's lawyers. NTSB will be here tomorrow. I can say that, while the flying we are doing is low, tight and fast, I don't find it any more dangerous than air shows. Sometimes, truly, "Fate is the Hunter".

Gary

Ps: Ms Sandra Armstrong just returned from the hospital and tapped on my door. She says Gene is sore but doing fine. He is in a room now (not the chapel, which is where he should spend the night)

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:04 pm

Wow,

thanks for the info. I was glad to hear that he was ok after the crash.

But it doesnt sound like the val was completely destroyed from what i read. Are there pics of the wreck? What is left of it? And where are the remains now?

David_Aiken · **Joined:** Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:31 pm **Posts:** 403

A letter from a Kamaaina said the wreck is at Dillingham Field a few years back...

Simon Beck · **Joined:** Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:20 pm **Posts:** 137

I understand N27003 was retrofitted back to BT-13A standard
a few years back and is with the CAF.

The Val that crashed in Hawaii during filming in '69 was N63227
which would make 10 Vals built inthe US.
The Kate that crashed during filming was N2819G.

The March Field Val seems to have three s/n: 41-1306, 41-21487,
41-1414 - anyone know for sure which one??? I've emailed them
about it a few times but didn't seem very responsive....

One thing I've noted is that the replicas in "Tora" seem to be without
markings in the film?? - were they dropped at some point to avoid
continunity issues?

Simon

Jerry O'Neill · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:44 pm

I believe you are correct Simon.
The only "unique" markings on any of the aircraft was the tail colors of Cmdr. Fuchida's Kate. They painted it with orange and red stripes.
Jerry

David_Aiken · **Joined:** Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:31 pm **Posts:** 403

make that a red tail with yellow stripes...

http://groups.msn.com/japanesemodelaircraft/pearlharboraircraft.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1934

Jerry O'Neill · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:30 pm

Thanks David...a slip of the old eyes!
I remember your postings on the "Pearl Harbor Movie" thread back in the spring of 2001.
Jerry

Roger Cain · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:38 pm

Don't know if you know about it or not, but William T. Larkins has a message board on Yahoo at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tora3aircraft/ and last year he posted a bunch of pictures of some of the Tora planes in their movie schemes.
Its been inactive, but if you were to prod him by joining, could probably get him to post some more stuff.

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