Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:04 pm
Nathan wrote:We coulda have hadd three B-29's flying. Wasn't there a B-29 in the Artic that a team fixed up and flew it out? But it caught fire on take off and was destroyed?
You're thinking of "Kee Bird." It's on APG85's list under "Identified Wrecks."
APG85 wrote:3. 45-21768 B-29-95-BW KEE BIRD Modified as an F-13. Became lost on a recon mission after taking off from Ladd AFB, Alaska in 1947. Ran low on fuel and belly landed on a frozen lake in North West Greenland. Fuselage burned and abandoned after attempted recovery in May 1995. Wings, tail, engines, and props are still intact. Wreckage is visible in shallow water.
Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:06 pm
muddyboots wrote:Nathan wrote:We coulda have hadd three B-29's flying. Wasn't there a B-29 in the Artic that a team fixed up and flew it out? But it caught fire on take off and was destroyed?
3. 45-21768 B-29-95-BW KEE BIRD Modified as an F-13. Became lost on a recon mission after taking off from Ladd AFB, Alaska in 1947. Ran low on fuel and belly landed on a frozen lake in North West Greenland. Fuselage burned and abandoned after attempted recovery in May 1995. Wings, tail, engines, and props are still intact. Wreckage is visible in shallow water.
Generator fire I believe.
Yep thats the one. Thanks muddyboots!
Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:14 pm
I saw the show on that, it was exciting to watch, followed by a sickening feeling watching this B-29 burn to the ground. After they got the engines started, they began to taxi her out, and as she was light, she was bouncing. The generator back in the tail section had been left running, and it spilled gasoline, which hit the exhaust which burst into flames which put the 29 into the ground. What a loss. Folks just got in a hurry and missed a step I guess. I think I would have eaten a bullet if I'd have left the generator on or even in the aircraft.
Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:16 pm
Wow -- you gotta be qick around here
I believe muddyboots is right about the cause of the fire as well -- improperly secured fuel spilled directly onto a hot auxillary power unit (APU) during high-speed taxi tests just prior to the take-off attempt.
I believe muddyboots is right about the cause of the fire as well -- improperly secured fuel spilled directly onto a hot auxillary power unit (APU) during high-speed taxi tests just prior to the take-off attempt.
Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:18 pm
yeah, that totally sucked
Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:24 pm
gary1954 wrote:I saw the show on that...
It was an episode of the PBS science series "NOVA" entitled, "B-29 Frozen in Time." To this day, one of the most popular they've ever aired. New copies are available for sale on Deep Discount DVD for $13.95
http://search.deepdiscount.com/search?w=b-29%20frozen%20in%20time&
You can also find it on Amazon, E-bay, etc...
Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:32 pm
gary1954 wrote:yeah, that totally sucked
IIRC the gas can was hung over the generator. Crew up front assumed rear guy shut off the gen. When he figured he should shut it off they were bouncing and he couldn't reach it in time and had to jump through the fire to exit as the gen was between him and the exit. He suffered some burns making the escape.
At POF they have a B-50 fus that I helped to prepare for some movie stuff. The inside had wiring with fabric based insulation as well as a ton of canvas covering in the fuselage to ease the cold. You look around and talk about a powder keg. You wonder how many loses happened just because of interior materials burning on the 29s. Once that material would light off it would take a miracle to get it out. Thats why that thing burned so hot and fast. I don't think any avgas even lit off. The wings didn't burn, just forward and aft fuselage areas.
Rich
Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:33 pm
I would pay to have a copy of that video, only IF the funds collected were put into a pot for the airworthy restoration and operation of Warbirds, so we could continue to educate the young ones about our heritage of/in Aviation, and that you "find the cost of freedom buried in the ground (crosby,stills,nash, and young)".
Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:03 pm
The APU on a B-29 must stay running while taxiing in order for the batteries to have enough "juice" to keep the electric/hydraulic pump pressured up for the brakes. The airplane has no direct nosewheel steering, as the nosewheel just freely casters. Steering is done solely by the brakes and alternate engine power. When the engines are at idle, their generators aren't turning fast enough for them to be "on line," so that is why the APU stays running.
As a matter of fact, the APU stays running until AFTER the gear is raised after takeoff, since it requires 460 amps to raise the gear.
There are seven generators on a B-29. Two on each outboard engine and one on each inboard. Those are 300 amps each. The APU generator is 200 amps. If any of the engine driven generators aren't working properly, the APU will assist the gear and flap movements (the flaps require 270 amps to operate), along with any other electrical draw that is required of the airplane.
(NOTE: the following statement was taken from one of the crew members of the Kee Bird Recovery Team. Not all of them tell the story the same way, so there may be some different variants to this story. I personally tend to believe this one though...) "The fuel pump on the Kee Bird's APU had failed, so it couldn't draw the fuel from the factory installed fuel tank anymore. A 5 gallon gas can was hung from the top fuselage formers with a coat hangar, so that the fuel could be gravity fed to the APU. This worked well until the can broke loose from the coat hangar while taxiing, spilling the fuel on top of the hot APU. The ensuing fire consumed the airplane and could not be extiguished."
I'm sorry if this post is too technical, but I frequently hear how "the APU burned that B-29 to the ground," and it drives me nuts. A simple mistake (and getting in a rush) is what caused the airplane to burn to the ground. Those guys did what they could with what they had, after all, they were out in the middle of a frozen lake in the Artic. However, it just shows how something so simple going bad can be so tragic.
Oh, and by the way, I recently installed two more batteries to the electrical system in FIFI, which now gives the airplane three batteries in the system. The idea of this was to eliminate the need for the APU, which was confirmed in our series of test flights before the engines on the airplane went ka-put. We do, however, keep the APU on the "ready" in case it's needed for an electrical emergency.
Gary
As a matter of fact, the APU stays running until AFTER the gear is raised after takeoff, since it requires 460 amps to raise the gear.
There are seven generators on a B-29. Two on each outboard engine and one on each inboard. Those are 300 amps each. The APU generator is 200 amps. If any of the engine driven generators aren't working properly, the APU will assist the gear and flap movements (the flaps require 270 amps to operate), along with any other electrical draw that is required of the airplane.
(NOTE: the following statement was taken from one of the crew members of the Kee Bird Recovery Team. Not all of them tell the story the same way, so there may be some different variants to this story. I personally tend to believe this one though...) "The fuel pump on the Kee Bird's APU had failed, so it couldn't draw the fuel from the factory installed fuel tank anymore. A 5 gallon gas can was hung from the top fuselage formers with a coat hangar, so that the fuel could be gravity fed to the APU. This worked well until the can broke loose from the coat hangar while taxiing, spilling the fuel on top of the hot APU. The ensuing fire consumed the airplane and could not be extiguished."
I'm sorry if this post is too technical, but I frequently hear how "the APU burned that B-29 to the ground," and it drives me nuts. A simple mistake (and getting in a rush) is what caused the airplane to burn to the ground. Those guys did what they could with what they had, after all, they were out in the middle of a frozen lake in the Artic. However, it just shows how something so simple going bad can be so tragic.
Oh, and by the way, I recently installed two more batteries to the electrical system in FIFI, which now gives the airplane three batteries in the system. The idea of this was to eliminate the need for the APU, which was confirmed in our series of test flights before the engines on the airplane went ka-put. We do, however, keep the APU on the "ready" in case it's needed for an electrical emergency.
Gary
Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:16 pm
cool, I can hang with that....weebee informed now, and no need for questimation
B-29 Surviving Airframes
Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:35 pm
One of the links near the bottom of Taigh Ramey's webpage has some of the best interior B-29 pictures that I've seen.Check out the link:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mclaydon/bkdoor-b29.htm
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mclaydon/bkdoor-b29.htm
Re: B-29 Surviving Airframes
Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:07 pm
Larry Kraus wrote:One of the links near the bottom of Taigh Ramey's webpage has some of the best interior B-29 pictures that I've seen.Check out the link:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mclaydon/bkdoor-b29.htm
In those photos you can see how there is a lot of fabric covering everything.
It served to cover insulation. That is what I remember in the B-50 as well.
Rich
Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:14 pm
Great list...thanks for putting it together in one place. Kermit Weeks then has 2 complete B-29s (but unassembled) and one partial B-29 airframe!
Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:38 pm
muddyboots wrote:Hey! "Here's Hopin" is MY bird!
It was damaged by a simulated nuke blast, btw.
uM...no....
You might be thinking about "Echo Bird" which is out on that range. Here's Hopin is in the airfield bone yard about 1/2 mile from where my butt is currently parked here at work.
BTW I discovered Here's Hopin's name one day when I still had acsess to it.
Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:32 pm
Is there a website anywhere detailing the recovery effort of Kee Bird? I was overseas in the AF when all that occured, and I missed the show. I'd love to get a copy of that video, but if its anything like the History Channel video of the Glacier Girl recovery (it quit working after the first time I watched it) I'll save my money for something else.
B
B