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 Post subject: Accident cause ?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:50 pm 
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I belive Jeff ran out of fuel on one tank. The plane was not full when he got in, it had been flown already that morning WITHOUT refueling. Also of the the 5 or 6 tanks, 2 of them had not been refitted, but the selector positon was not blocked off. The 38 system is complex, and I think he ran a tank dry in the pattern, after taking longer than intended for photos and doing a go-around for a light plane in the pattern. It's easy for the NYSB to talk aboout min single engine control speed, when siting at a desk, but probably a lot harder when it quits in the pattern at lower speed and altitude. Was he legal to fly the 38? That may be a technical point, and may depend on which lawyer argues which way. Jeff had unlimited fighter rating, does that exclude the 38? He was not only knowlegeable about the plane as his Dad had flown them in the war, but Jeff himself had flown one and even made a video about it. He had Twin Beech time and I think B-25 time, what else do you need? There is no dual control 38s, so any flight is going to be a first solo. If he was not legal, then how do you get to be? It seems this may be a difference on paper rather than logic. How did Lefty's son get legal to fly the 38 without previous flight time in one?Whatever the explantion I was one of the many people lucky to call Jeff a friend, and to have shared a flight with him.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:59 pm 
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I helped him fish keys for his rental car out of the radiator of a P-51. Not sure how they got there, but I had a great time helping him. He was really a great guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Accident cause ?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:25 pm 
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Bill Greenwood wrote:
I belive Jeff ran out of fuel on one tank. The plane was not full when he got in, it had been flown already that morning WITHOUT refueling. Also of the the 5 or 6 tanks, 2 of them had not been refitted, but the selector positon was not blocked off. The 38 system is complex, and I think he ran a tank dry in the pattern, after taking longer than intended for photos and doing a go-around for a light plane in the pattern. It's easy for the NYSB to talk aboout min single engine control speed, when siting at a desk, but probably a lot harder when it quits in the pattern at lower speed and altitude. Was he legal to fly the 38? That may be a technical point, and may depend on which lawyer argues which way. Jeff had unlimited fighter rating, does that exclude the 38? He was not only knowlegeable about the plane as his Dad had flown them in the war, but Jeff himself had flown one and even made a video about it. He had Twin Beech time and I think B-25 time, what else do you need? There is no dual control 38s, so any flight is going to be a first solo. If he was not legal, then how do you get to be? It seems this may be a difference on paper rather than logic. How did Lefty's son get legal to fly the 38 without previous flight time in one?Whatever the explantion I was one of the many people lucky to call Jeff a friend, and to have shared a flight with him.


The P-38 fuel system requires you to take off on the reserve tanks as the fuel boost pump return lines dump back in the reserve tanks. Once you turn the boost pumps off, you switch tanks. The reserve tanks have enough fuel for about 25 min. of flight time. Mr. Ethell crashed 25 minutes after taking off. Also the P-38 in question was licensed in the Limited catagory which requires a type rating in the P-38. Mr Ethell didn't have the required type rating.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:50 am 
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As promised, here's two of my Jeff stories....

I had known Jeff four about 4-5 years and he even used a picture of my re-enactment group in one of his books. In 1992, I got a call from Jeff two weeks before the Geneseo Show. He needed WWII re-enactors to play parts in his Roaring Glory series then in production. Could I put a B-25 & B-17 crew together for Geneseo? Of course I could! It was a very memorable weekend at Geneseo. My son got his first B-25 ride during the shooting and we all got to be in the video.

As a side note, for those of you who have the video of the B-17, perceptive viewers will notice that the "WWII Crew" enters "Fuddy Duddy" from the outside, but once inside, there is an actual complete Ball Turret and a complete Top Turret. "Fuddy Duddy" had neither and still doesn't. On Thursday before the show, when we were ready to shot the interior crew shots, "Nine-O-Nine" pulled up and I suggested that we use it instead of "Fuddy Duddy" for the crew station shots. Jeff agreed it would be better and since my friends on "Nine-O-Nine" had to go check-in for the show, we were given the run of the aircraft.

My second Jeff story is my favorite and very close to my heart.
For many years, Jeff had told me that if he had a P-51 at a show, and we could work it out, he'd take me for a spin. I never pushed, because being around warbirds so much, I figured it would happen one day, either with my friend Jeff, or someone else. I had Jeff come to New Haven with Wallace Sanders in "Nervous Energy IV" for our 1995 airshow. He said we'd try to go flying that weekend.

Now here's where it gets special. My uncle was a pilot who was killed in combat flying P-51's with the 325th Fighter Group. "Nervous Energy IV" is painted to represent the 325th Fighter Group. I knew the flight might not happen, as I was deeply involved with the airshow production, but Sunday morning he grabbed me before brief and said, "Let's go!"
Now I try to be prepared for things like this, so I had my uncles wings with me and Jeff handed me a yellow & black, "Checkertail Scarf" to wear and keep.
After we took off, we flew over my house and buzzed a lake in Meriden, CT. We then flew down to Long Island Sound and over the house that my Uncle had grown up in. My Uncle Fred was lost on September 15, 1944 and my flight with Jeff was almost 51 years later to the day, Sept. 12th, 1995. Lots of emotion during that flight!

I knew I'd ride in a P-51 some day, I just never expected it to be out of MY airport, over MY house and MY Uncle's boy hood home, with HIS wings in my pocket and in a Mustang wearing his Fighter Groups colors!
WOW!
Jeff was a real class act and I do miss him so.

The last time I actually saw Jeff in person was a small aircraft display at Bradley International Airport for the New England Air Museum Open House in Sept. of 1996. Again he was with Wallace and "Nervous Energy IV", but it was raining all day on Sunday. We waited outside in the rain as he started up the Mustang, waved goodbye as he taxied out, and almost fittingly, watched as he disappeared into the raining, overcast sky, as though he was climbing to heaven.

We did speak on the phone several times after that, but that is the lasting image I have of my good friend, Jeff Ethell.

He knew what these planes meant to those of us who might not have the chance to fly in them and he was just as excited sharing his good fortune with others.
Thanks for sharing part of your life with people like me.

Godspeed Jeff.

Jerry O'Neill

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:34 am 
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Awsome story buddy. I think the whole warbird scene misses Jeff Ethell

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 Post subject: Jeff
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:44 pm 
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Warbird 51, You may be correct legally, but you raise some questions? If there are no dual control P-38s, how do you get a type rating in one? It would seem with Jeffs experience in many other waribrds both single and twin he would qualify if anyone did. Also he had already flown a P-38, are some of them classed so you don't need a type rating? As a pracitcal matter of flight safety, if one is register normal or unlimited and one is registered limited , do they fly any different or need any diffferent operation? For about 20 years I flew a Spitfire with the required letter of authorization. When I flew good so did the plane and vice versa. Then in its infinite wisdom the FAA decided that I need a type rating to fly the plane so I turned in my piece of paper that said Letter Of Authorizaton and got one that said Type Rating. The plane didn't seem to know the difference. Are you sure the acciddent report said the flight was only 25 minutes? I have read it, but some time ago. I don't know if the report states the positon of the fuel selctor after the crash, but that might not be conclusive. It could have been on a dry tank causing the engine to quit or switched to that tank when the engine stopped. Jeff could also have just made a mistake, being human as we all are.

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Last edited by Bill Greenwood on Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:56 pm 
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Isn't the wreckage still around somewhere? At any rate, if I had my choice in pilots to fly my P-38, Jeff would have been at the top.

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 Post subject: ???
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:28 pm 
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Quote:
If there are no dual control P-38s, how do you get a type rating in one?

The same way you get one in a TBM, A-20, F7F ect.
Quote:
Also he had already flown a P-38

But yet again illegially
Jeff was a great guy and a good friend. But, he was in to much of a darn hurry. I well remember the day he crashed. I had talked to him a couple days before and he was pumped. He told me that he was going to show those P-38 pilots at Tillamook "some real great P=38 flying". He was up early and flew from the east coast to PDX then rented a car and drove to Tillamook (2+ hours) and then jumped in the 38 and flew. Jeff died in front of all those pilots inclding me and his dad. He'd been up since dawn and flew/drove coast to coast. Exhaustion, inexperience and impaticence were big causes of the crash. Since he was not legal to fly the a/c his life ins didn't pay benefits to his family. Jack Erickson was responsible for the safe operation of the a/c and was sued by the owner for allowing it's operation by a unqualified pilot and settled out of court for big $$$. Bruce Prewitt bought the wreck back from the ins. company and I believe is or was storing it. I've heard from quite a few people ( sorry no names) that although Jeff had a all piston expermental (NOT limited) card and flew a lot of warbirds he wasn't really the best pilot and performed marginally in some like the B-25. Take these words with a grain of salt because Jeff was a really good friend and we helped each other a lot with our research. If he'd just slowed down and done it by the numbers. He possibly could be here now participating on the forum.

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Last edited by Jack Cook on Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:50 pm 
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Jack I feel that there is alot of knowledge in that paragraph. He was a great guy, no one thinks any different. But when it comes down to it, he did something wrong, and paid a price for it. The same risk we all take when we take a short cut in an airplane.

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 Post subject: types
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:57 pm 
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So Jack how do you get the type rating in the P-38 or F-7 etc, I don't know? Can you explain it better? I do know I was asked to help one of our best warbird pilots with a Spitfire rating, I gave him my knowledge by phone, but could not do it through the FAA as I was not a CFI. He got his rating from a very good and experienced pilot who was a CFI, but had never flown a Spitfire. As for it being not smart to hurry, I STRONGLY AGREE with you. I would have tried to get out a day or two before to review. That is how I fly my best. As I knew Jeff, I never saw him to be a rush, rush big city type, on the contrary he seemed mellow and always had time to talk to and listen to folks. I roomed with him one week at Lakeland. We rented a Miata sports car together and he enjoyed it, but was no wild driver. As for being less than a good pilot, I only flew dual with him once, but he was very good, not necessarily one of a kind. After about 15 minutes to aclimate he did a very good roll in the Spitfire, and he seemed to fly Rudy's well. I am not informed about the B-25, but I have heard people critisize Jeff in ways that seemed to me to be little more than jealousy since he got to fly so many different planes. I can say I NEVER HEARD Jeff attack or bellittle another pilot or warbird person, he seemed to have too much dignity to need to do that. I recall once asking him about a plane that wasn't maintained too well and he answered me just with a frown that made the point without being a put down.

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 Post subject: ???
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:21 pm 
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Quote:
So Jack how do you get the type rating in the P-38 or F-7 etc, I don't know?

To say I'm not a expert would be the understatement of the year. I'm sure jcw, Vlado, Gary or Glenn could explain it better. To put it in the most simplest of terms 'a qualified pilot would need to show competency to a FAA qualifed type check examiner. The late Bill Dodds comes to mind has one of the best. I remember Jeff and Wayne having their type checks in the B-25 from a tanker guy friend of Larry Kraus who came over from Butler Aviation in Redmond to do it. I recall his name to be Larry Kelly and he wasn't a B-25 pilot just a FAA designed examiner.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:40 pm 
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A few years ago, (this may have changed now), the FAA would occasionally designate a private pilot who was very experienced in a certain type, to give dual in warbirds requiring the LOA. There is an excellent article by John Deakins about his T-28Charlie ride:

http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182123-1.html

Deakins had time in everything from C-46's to Bearcats, but took dual from a private pilot in the Charlie, and the private pilot cut him no slack.

Steve G


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 Post subject: Re: Jeff
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:43 pm 
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I don't know if the report states the positon of the fuel selctor after the crash, but that might not be conclusive. It could have been on a dry tank causing the engine to quit or switched to that tank when the engine stopped. Jeff could also have just made a mistake, being human as we all are.[/quote]


The fuel selector valves were found to be in the reserve tank setting after the crash. The right reserve tank was empty.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:06 pm 
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Did I read that right? That a guy that might not be rated to fly a B-25, can give you a B-25 check ride because he is in the FAA?

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 Post subject: ??
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:26 pm 
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Quote:
That a guy that might not be rated to fly a B-25, can give you a B-25 check ride because he is in the FAA

Designated by the FAA not necessarly employed and they can do it, I believe, only for specific a/c.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001208X08240&ntsbno=SEA97FA130&akey=1

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