Warbird Information Exchange

Scott wrote:
This forum is a community and as such we have a variety of personalities. And wherever you have more than a certain amount of people you will have conflict. Deal with it. This whole attitude of "If they don't think like me I'm going home." is short sighted and close-minded. Part of the value of this site is to experience other opinions. If you want to hear your own opinions then find a mirror


Scott,

May I just make one last remark:

This just shows how this forum has degenerated. Of course a forum is a place were people can meet and discuss topics. And that there are differences of opinions that makes it all the more interesting. I have tried to make clear for the past days that the balance is off. Everytime I tried to explain this I get a onesided (USA) sh1tload of critisism over me. How's that regarding the possibility to discuss different opinions. Reflecting the George W Bush way of doing things: "If you are not for us, you are against us". Then so be it.

But Scott, having read your reply about the previous thread gave me a nasty shock as I am being accused of inmature behaviour and wanting to force my own opinion upon others.

As one of the "oldtimers" of WWW, Vintage Aviator and WIX I think I deserve a bit more credit and not a stab in the back.

Sorry to have to say this, but perhaps shutting down WIX isn't such a bad idea at all.

Cheerio,

Cees Broere

Scott

Please don't do what Cees advocates. As another old timer, from the days in which Paul Coggan published a xeroxed Mustang International newsletter, I find the WIX invaluable.

And since Setter liked my Italian proverb, here is another - to shut down because of personality problems is like throwing out the child with the dirty water.

Now, if we could all blunt some of our sharper edges and go back to sharing breaking news ...

Gregory

Cees

Observing the relevant threads of the past few days, it is easy to see how the conflict develops and snowballs between the U.S. and European view of things. I think Downunder folks are in neither camp and perhaps have a better over all view of it. I think the major problem is the difference in culture, Europeans tend to have a more measured and patient approach, wheras those in the U.S. tend to have a more bullish and impatient approach. Another problem is the interpretation of what is being said..I must admit I have to read some of the more controversial posts several times in order to try and get a balanced view of what the poster is trying to get across.
I certainly understand where you are coming from and sympathise with your view point, and after months of reading Robs posts, I am even beginning to get accustomed to the way he comes across....well almost
To sum up it would be a shame to loose your expert input, as a person who is 'hands on' in doing very important work..which I like to think inspires others to follow the same path in those countries that have service people still waiting for a proper burial. So I ask you to reconsider leaving the forum. Take a break, come back and give me a hand to hold off the Yankee hoards

regards
Dave

I have also had several WIX people contact me recently about the sexually explicit posts and wondered what direction WIX is going. I know there are several young people who visit WIX and I can't recommend it if they have a chance of seeing material like this.

Eric

_________________
The air resounds from the Rolls-Royce roar!
To an enemy the warning is dire: here only eagles soar,
and the last thing he'll see is a mirrored Spitfire!

I have noted the various comments and posts on my infrequent visits over the past couple of months. Some of you will remember that I started the original Warbirds Worldwide Forum on the site some years ago and at that time I felt it would be a fantastic resource. Indeed it was, and given that it had a massive exposure by having the site name plastered across the front of a journal it had good exposure. When things went pear shaped with WW my good friend Richard Page stepped in to both finance and set up the old vintage aviator forum. It was short lived because someone carelessly expressed an opinion a wee bit too specifically and because he was the site owner poor Richard received a solictors letter. I was upset and annoyed because Richard suffered after getting off his rear and doing something positive for thousands of people. Both Richard and I decided to suspend the forum and even that raised conspiracy theories! By this stage I had more pressing matters on my mind and those nice people from the bank demanding a big piece of me.

For the first few months the old WW Forum ran particularly well. We had no problems and no anonymous posts or vexatious (Sp?) attacks. However it didn't take long before the ODD (and you can count the rogues on one hand) pleb turned up and nominated himself as judge, jury and executioner on just about every controversial issue that came up on the board. I didn't want to censor but in the end I had to. Those that say 'ahh you should never censor' don't live in the real world. Supposedly everyone is entitled to their opinion, but with some it is only okay if it concurs with their own perosnal view. I know many of you that post to WIX and have done for some time. For the majority posting and lurking is a great experience and well worthwhile. For every post that I personally feel is garbage from an outspoken individual just childishly seeking attention there are a thousand good posts.

In some ways I think some of the people here have to be a little bit more thick skinned. Few people post personal attacks and from what little I've seen Scott pounces on them any way. I have to say that I believe there are a few rogues that are lucky not to have been dragged into court by now, but they generally hide behind an anonymous post. It is only a matter of time before soemone is nailed for publishing a personal attack and you'd just better pray it isn't Scott that has to suffer.

The bottom line is Scott has done and is doing - an admirable job. The majority of people post responsibly and no one should have to get on their high horse and start being abusive when they see an opinion they don't agree with. Even some of the most likeable people are naturally agressive and we can all make allowances for that, surely. I've lost count of the times I've gone into WIX, read something that I didn't like and then written a reply only to sit on it for an hour and then not send it.

An example of this was the other day when I read that, in someones opinion, ulimately the old WW forum had failed. Okay, ultimately WW failed after 52 editions and that was basically my fault. But it did go on for more than a few issues and created a fantastic network thanks to its subscribers. I was pretty annoyed when I read that because it was untrue (but no post mortems please). The old forum was the basis for WIX and I was extremely pleased when Scott provided WIX.

My point, before you all get bored, is that Scott works hard to keep it going. It has an international audience and when people disagree it it GREAT! If they are abusive in their response it is LAMENTABLE! They should be banned. This shouldn't be used as a Judge, Jury and executioner site for those that want to enforce their views rather than seek considered opinion and healthy debate. You do Scott a great diservice by misusing such a valuable resource!

For what it's worth that's my view of things here. After much deliberation I shall be launching my own small warbirds site later this year BUT it will NOT have a forum, so those that don't like my opinions don't HAVE to visit! (he says tongue in cheek).

Keep going Scott.

regards

Paul

Hi,I think the WIX board is excellent! Im not a big computer guy but I enjoy getting aviation news at lightning speed,instead of waiting for our favorite magazines!!It steals some of my time but I find it worth while,I like to share info were I can and have learned allot by others posts. Ive met and talked to afew WIXers some have even stopped by to see the A25 project the one thing in common is they have all been very nice and informed people. Ive talked with Rob on the phone several times and find him a good source of aviation info! Ive posted my e mail address and phone number on the board and have never recieved anything negative and have made contacts with some very interesting folks.Im very interested in the post by Gregory about the SB2C located under water near Italy,feel free to contact my by e mail I would love to see it recovered and restored ,anything I can do to help just ask!!Thanks!!Mike

No worries Gregory, even though it is frustrating at times I will not be closing the site down.

In the end people are going to do what they want to do. The WIX forum has for years ebbed and flowed with new people coming in and "Old Timers" leaving.

Cees, I'm sorry if my post offended you. It was aimed specifically at you but more towards everyone involved. This forum has evolved by the input of those who participate. If it is Pro-American or whatever then that is a result of the people involved.

If you don't like something the ignore it and it will more than likely go away. Annoying behavior feeds on attention and lack of attention more often than not will curtail the behavior.

I want to thank eveyone for thier support during this frustrating time.

And Cees, if you want to leave then thats your perogative, your welcome to stay.

_________________
Scott Rose
Editor-In-Chief/Webmaster
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Hi Cees,

I hope you made up your mind by now...Please stay !

Groetjes,

Paul

Dear Scott, dear Rob, dear all,

It's good to see that things are smoothing out and, after the jolt, we are finding our equilibrium again.

I would just like to clarify my point of view about "pro-Americanism". No one - and certainly not myself - contests anyone's right to be pro-American. As I have said before, being an Italian-American I am truly grateful for what the USA did to save Italy (and Europe) in 1941-45, and again with the Marshall Plan (ERP) and throughout the Cold War. (In fact, I think it is high time that something be done to commemorate the US sacrifices in Italy. Maybe a Duxford-style American Air Museum would be too much, but perhaps a nice B-25 as memorial would be in order.)

What I have problems with has nothing to do with history. It has to do with the occasional comment and/or attitude (not necessarily on this board) that the only way to save airplanes and artifacts is to bring them to the US to fly.

I travelled to Sweden to see a CR.42 (now we have our own), to Greece to see the SB-2C (the only one in Europe), to Brazil to see the Siai S.55 (only one in the world), to DC to see what was then the only Macchi C.202 (now we have our own). I thank each of those countries for preserving a bit of Italian heritage which we ourselves neglected at the time.

But please, let's all recognise that we all make mistakes. The USAFM got its B-10 in Latin America. Most of the PNG P-39 recoveries are still corroding away, albeit in the MARC compound. There are plenty of neglected non-Mustang warbirds rotting away in the States. That doesn't mean that other people in the States don't do a wonderful job of saving significant pieces of our aviation heritage.

To wrap up, as enthusiasts we share a love of these beautiful machines of yore. We all try to save them and preserve them - to fly or to display. We all face difficulties with money, resources, unsympathetic regulations and authorities ... Let's try to work together from these common problems, without passing judgment on other people's abilities, skills, motivations.

Good and evil are not related to latitude and longitude, religion, ethnicity and politics. In my opinion, diversity is good, different approaches are useful and I am all the richer for preservation of everyone's heritage. This is where and why WIX can do a lot of good for aircraft preservation in general. Let's try to encourage it.

End of sermon and explanation. Feel free to bash me if I have put my foot in my mouth.

Gregory