Swoose Photos & Questions

[Garth]

Actually Generals do not retire. They go on the inactive list. While on the inactive list they can and do perform duties for the active forces.

It actually depends. General's don't "retire" per se, but they have the option of keeping or resigning their commissions once they go inactive.

I would imagine that most Generals just keep their commissions. Some don't. Eisehower resigned his commission prior to becoming President to preserve the concept of civillian control over the military. However his commission was reinstated by act of Congress in the Kennedy Administration.

I think (don't know for sure) that other Generals who take up senior-level Legislative or Executive Branch positions tend to resign their commissions as well. I'm not sure whether Colin Powell did or not, but I do know that there was something of a stink when General Hayen was nominated for DCIA and decided to keep his commission (and active service?).

[Shay]

One of The Swoose’s crews (pictured after the war). (l to r) Col. Frank Kurtz, Harry Schrieber, Harold Varner, Roland Boone, and Charles Reeves.



It's definately a black underside. I'm in favor of restore it with a ventral gun tub. It's representative of the early model Forts

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[mustangdriver]

Alot of it may depend on whether or not the metal can be polished back to s display worthy standard. It is really rough right now. If it can be then a decision will have to be made, but if not, then O.D. it is. Either way I think we are going to see a bath tub on it, and the Swoose nose art.

[Shay]

I guess more than likely she was OD by the time she went into combat.

Starting in March of 1941, the Army began to paint its B-17s in olive drab and grey camouflage paint. By the time of Pearl Harbor, virtually all B-17Cs and Ds were in warpaint.

Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis

[Matt Gunsch]

I guess more than likely she was OD by the time she went into combat.

Starting in March of 1941, the Army began to paint its B-17s in olive drab and grey camouflage paint. By the time of Pearl Harbor, virtually all B-17Cs and Ds were in warpaint.

Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis

I guess no one reads earlier posts, here is one I put on page 1 of this thread
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject:

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mtpopejoy wrote:
Matt Gunsch wrote:
it got the OD paint and black belly in March/april 1946 at March AFB, before it went to LA as a war memorial. Page 123 in the The Swoose . Prior to that, it was polished metal.


The pics Jack posted it looks like it is OD with black. Images are quoted as Nov. 1942????


You must have better eyes than I do, all I see is worn OD and darker areas that are shadows.

Appendix 1, page 181 started life in bare metal, painted brown and swampy green, Dec 41, paint stripped in Panama early 1944, painted OD and black in Kingman March/April 46

First Swoose logo was in Feb 42, colors were:
black for the beak, eye,bombsight, bomb fins, rudder, propeller, foot, lower leg, wing hinges, and 2000 LBS,
Chrome yellow for birds neck, bomb,
Red for "IT FLYS ?"
Brown for the body, wings, and "THE SWOOSE"
green gray for the background

That is from the book, Odyssey of a B-17 The Swoose,written by Herbert S. Brownstein, published by the Smithsonian, if they don't know what the colors were, no one does.

[Shay]

I guess more than likely she was OD by the time she went into combat.

Starting in March of 1941, the Army began to paint its B-17s in olive drab and grey camouflage paint. By the time of Pearl Harbor, virtually all B-17Cs and Ds were in warpaint.

Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis

I guess no one reads earlier posts, here is one I put on page 1 of this thread
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mtpopejoy wrote:
Matt Gunsch wrote:
it got the OD paint and black belly in March/april 1946 at March AFB, before it went to LA as a war memorial. Page 123 in the The Swoose . Prior to that, it was polished metal.


The pics Jack posted it looks like it is OD with black. Images are quoted as Nov. 1942????


You must have better eyes than I do, all I see is worn OD and darker areas that are shadows.

Appendix 1, page 181 started life in bare metal, painted brown and swampy green, Dec 41, paint stripped in Panama early 1944, painted OD and black in Kingman March/April 46

First Swoose logo was in Feb 42, colors were:
black for the beak, eye,bombsight, bomb fins, rudder, propeller, foot, lower leg, wing hinges, and 2000 LBS,
Chrome yellow for birds neck, bomb,
Red for "IT FLYS ?"
Brown for the body, wings, and "THE SWOOSE"
green gray for the background

That is from the book, Odyssey of a B-17 The Swoose,written by Herbert S. Brownstein, published by the Smithsonian, if they don't know what the colors were, no one does.

No I read it Matt.

I was just submittting an additional source of information for other peoples veiwing pleasure.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[groundpounder]

bumpity bump bump bump ! any pics of the swoose's interior and the rest of her now that she has been relocated??? any initial asessement reports yet? tanky.

[Robbie Roberts]

Actually Generals do not retire. They go on the inactive list. While on the inactive list they can and do perform duties for the active forces.

It actually depends. General's don't "retire" per se, but they have the option of keeping or resigning their commissions once they go inactive.

Generals DO retire- and some ARE retired... Gen Bruce C. Clarke, who joined the NY National Guard in 1917, and ended up full time, a Colonel in 4th Armored Div, a Brigadier General at St. Vith during the Battle of the Bulge, I Corps commander in Korea, 4 star USAEUR commander during the "Checkpoint Charlie" incident, received a FORM LETTER from the Secretary of Defense just after his 60th birthday, thanking him for his service, and informing him of his forthcoming retirement! He had no plans to retire! He ended up doing a few inspection tours in Viet Nam, and later...

Robbie

[tom d. friedman]

Alot of it may depend on whether or not the metal can be polished back to s display worthy standard. It is really rough right now. If it can be then a decision will have to be made, but if not, then O.D. it is. Either way I think we are going to see a bath tub on it, and the Swoose nose art.

that is great news!!!

[davegnz]

Can we stop calling this aircraft The Swoose and start calling her by her correct name - Ole Betsy - aircraft # 21 11th BG (21 11B) 17th BS - (Pilot: Lieutenant Henry Godman)

The Swoose was her name after she was converted to a CB-17D (executive B-17) Ole Betsy was her name as a Bomber flying out of Clark Field / Del Monte Field in 1941.

I want to see her restored as a bomber so this means getting rid of this Swoose nickname.

[Jack Cook]

Can we stop calling this aircraft The Swoose

Are you serious?? If you are the answers no!!

[bluethunder28]

Heck NO!

She survived because Swoose was converted. If not, you just might be drinking from part of her.

[BigGrey]

Can we stop calling this aircraft The Swoose and start calling her by her correct name - Ole Betsy - aircraft # 21 11th BG (21 11B) 17th BS - (Pilot: Lieutenant Henry Godman)

The Swoose was her name after she was converted to a CB-17D (executive B-17) Ole Betsy was her name as a Bomber flying out of Clark Field / Del Monte Field in 1941.

I want to see her restored as a bomber so this means getting rid of this Swoose nickname.

I guess it would just be easier to restore all aircraft to just like they looked when they left the factory. No nose art or paint schemes to argue over.

Les

[6trn4brn]

Hey Chris (or anybody else visiting NMUSAF)...any chance of you getting some pix of Swoose as she sits in the resto shop? I think a lot of us would like to see what ya'll got there and possibly plan a trip out to the resto shop ourselves, but I bet you could get better shots than us.

As an aside...was the latest news about Flak Bait coming to NMUSAF substantiated or is that still a work in progress? I for one would certainly plan a trip there to Dayton to see Flak Bait re-assembled and on display!

Thanx...

[mustangdriver]

I am told that Flak Bait is in the works.