Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:29 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:23 am 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:23 pm
Posts: 2319
Location: Atlanta, GA
Never flown a C-123, but as a career C-130 guy, I can imagine how this unfolded. I assume that the left-seater was flying and also assume that, upon touchdown, procedure dictates that the left-seater transfers the yoke to the right-seater in order to free up his left hand for the nosewheel tiller.

Doing so, the situation demands that the right-seater, who was not flying (feeling the control pressures, assessing the wind, etc), must immediately start making those inputs where the other pilot left off. It can be a tough transition. While it usually isn't an issue, sometimes it is.

The Herk acts top-heavy and will "lean" a lot, which is hard for some to grasp; the C-123 looks as if it has similar tendencies. All wheels can be on the ground, yet you're still flying the upwind wing down and into the wind, even varying bank angle during rollout - unlike a T-6, for example, where individual tire contact and bank angle are essentially hard-connected. The distinction is that, although both C-130 and T-6 pilots finish with full aileron into the wind, the C-130 pilot can actually modulate the bank of the airplane within the limits of the gear struts and, until the ailerons are no longer effective. A side issue is that rolling a C-130 yoke full-travel takes it to approximately 135 degrees, and can be tough on the wrist; some pilots feel as if they have "full travel" but still have a lot of throw remaining; not sure about the C-123.

All that said, I stop/started the youtube video in 1-second increments and watched both bank angle and aileron deflection throughout the landing; kinda surprising given the reported winds. Larry made a great suggestion about the possibility of asymmetric prop reverse as well, but the ailerons appear to tell the story.

Thankfully there was no apparent injury or damage. Anyone who flys can have an oops moment at any time, whether caused by the pilot or an issue with the airplane. Rather than criticize anyone, I hope this video ends up being a valuable crosswind training tool.

Respectfully,
Ken

_________________
"Take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:59 pm
Posts: 817
Location: Redmond,Oregon
Ken makes a good point on the flight controls and the c/p handling the yoke on landing rollout. One item that is unique to Fairchild airplanes is the automatic locking of the rudder and elevator during and after reversing. I knew that the Boxcar had this feature, but had to check to see if it was also used in the C-123. This feature was to prevent the yoke from beating the pilot to death from turbulence over the elevators during reversing. It could be unhelpful in some situations, however.

The only airplane that I flew regularly that had reverse was the DC-7 and we reversed on most landing both to shorten the landing roll and to keep the system exercised. The co-pilot definitely had to handle the yoke during reverse to keep it from flailing around from turbulence over the elevators. I once had to shut down #3 engine (right inboard) for some reason. On landing I opted to reverse the other 3 engines. Things got pretty exciting for a few moments when #4 (right outboard) went to feather instead of reverse. It’s amazing how quickly the airplane can head for the ditch with full reverse on one side only. Needless to say, I came out of reverse immediately.

The point of this being that the pilot and c/p in the C-123 would have not have the rudder available during their Mr.Toad’s Wild Ride. There is a T handle outboard of the pilot’s seat to disconnect the control lock, but that takes a free hand and a few seconds of time when you already have your hands full.

ImageIMG_8171 by tanker622001, on Flickr

ImageIMG_8172 by tanker622001, on Flickr

ImageIMG_8173 by tanker622001, on Flickr

ImageIMG_8174 by tanker622001, on Flickr


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:56 am 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:23 pm
Posts: 2319
Location: Atlanta, GA
Thanks for this insight Larry - I had no idea about the Fairchild locking features - odd, but I guess the engineers felt they were necessary. Yes, the elevators could dance in reverse on a Herk, but we just manhandled the yoke, of course it was hydraulically boosted. Interesting!

Ken

_________________
"Take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:48 am 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club

Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:26 pm
Posts: 2001
Location: Creemore Ontario Canada
Ken wrote:
Thanks for this insight Larry - I had no idea about the Fairchild locking features - odd, but I guess the engineers felt they were necessary. Yes, the elevators could dance in reverse on a Herk, but we just manhandled the yoke, of course it was hydraulically boosted. Interesting!

Ken

Ken, Larry, Really appreciate the sharing of first hand expertise and experience.
I learn much from you both.

Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:46 pm
Posts: 456
Location: Texas
Do they run the jets on that one?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:59 pm
Posts: 817
Location: Redmond,Oregon
I ran across another video of the landing on YouTube. Pretty much the same, but it starts a little earlier and isn’t taken by a vertical smart

https://youtu.be/S79CMXdDJGQ

Don’t know if the run the jets. I would doubt it as they are real gas hogs. Incidentally, besides the rudder and elevator automatically locking when reversing, the jet doors close when reversing starts in the K model C-123.

I see that Archer has already posted this video. Doh!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 6:31 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:10 am
Posts: 9715
Location: Pittsburgher misplaced in Oshkosh
We took the jets out of it in the 90’s. It’s just the pods out there.

_________________
Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:46 pm
Posts: 456
Location: Texas
Thanks Chris. That's interesting.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], wardie and 78 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group