Warbird Information Exchange

Hi Guys,

I am looking for some information here. As there were SO many variants to the Spitfire during it's service life, the question I have is "How Do you Tell The Different Mark's Apart" ?

I ask this because of the recent photo posted of a Spitfire with Desert Camo and a very large "Chin Scoop", and it got me to wondering.

Paul

If the Spitfire you saw with the big air scoop under the nose, its likely a Mk. V Spitfire. The scoop under the nose was there to house an air filter for desert operations. Without it, the carburetor would get clogged up with sand and dust causing the engine to malfunction. The way you can dertermine the different Marks of Spitfire is by observing the engine type that powers them, count the number of prop blades, some airframes have the clipped wingtips to allow the plane to perform faster aileron rolls, armanment and ordinance configurations, number of radiator intake fairings under the wing(s), etc. Its sometimes easy to mistake a Spitfire for a Seafire, which is the vaval variant of the Spitfire. The Seafires usually have folding wings so they are easier to spot if you take this into consideration. Hope this helps!

Jim

Paul, Good question! The basic Spitfire design was so good that it was able to be evolved or modified over the years for many different missions and different requirements. The wing is brillant; there is hardly a plane with such a clean design, no gimmicks needed, that flies as well at low speed and also can dive at such a high speed, test pilots wrote about regularly diving Mk IXs to Mach .88 and for a couple of experiments diving a Mk XI to .92! The design began really in 1935 and continued in producton through 49, and was in RAF service till 1957. Along with the wing design was the great Merlin engine that started out at 800 hp and in Reno race trim produces 3500 hp, though not for long. The original fighter needed fast climb to get up to the bombers. Range was not much of an issue. Then cannons were added, then the 2 stage high altitude Merlin, then long range photo recon versions, then even more power with the Griffons, then the 20 series emphasizing speed and high altitude power with 4 cannon. The final derivative, the Spiteful and Seafang have brutal power and are probably the fastest piston fighters ever built. To view: first some marks or models were sort of experimental and only 1 or 2 built. You could classify as first MkI&II, the simple early design; V 400 more hp and some canons: the high altitude 2 stage Merlin versions like the IX and XVI; The 2000hp Griffon versions like XIV, XVIII etc.; and finally the 20 series with a even more power and wing design. Some of the land versions have a Seafire version with folding wings and a hook, in all almost 23,000 were built and we've probably got less than a hundred left. By looking at the props, exhaust stacks, radiators, rudder you can identify the Mark usually.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Bill,
Speaking of variants, your Spit isn't exactly found on every ramp. Tell us bit about the two seater's model's history, in general and yours in particular.

Doug Ratchford "Canso42"
LSFM tug crew

It takes a trained eye, and even then it can get confusing. I can tell you the picture you probably saw was of a Mk V s/n JG891. Its restoration was recently completed at HISTORIC FLYING LTD in ENGLAND. It is, I believe the first "warbird" spitfire to have the "VOLKS" filter. It was for airplanes that operated in NORTH AFRICA , in a high sand enviroment.

Volks sounds like it belonged to the opposition.

It was a Vokes filter, and very nice it looked when I saw it about 10 hours ago.

Also used on RAAF and RAF Spits in the Far East. JG891 was in fact an RAAF bird if I remember right.

If you want real confusion try and figure out all the versions of the IX/XVI.

Large cannon bulges, small cannon bulges, tropical filters, no tropical filters, clipped wings, normal wings, extended wings, rounded rudder, pointed rudder, Universal wing, E wing, single cannon aperture, double apertures....it goes on and on

We remember too. It's on loan.

RAAF A58-178

ADF Serials:



http://www.adf-serials.com/

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

Bill,
Speaking of variants, your Spit isn't exactly found on every ramp. Tell us bit about the two seater's model's history, in general and yours in particular.

Here is a little history on TE308 http://www.jerrybilling.com/jerry_billi ... _te308.htm

Without Jerry Billings good conections over in England, Mr. Plumb would of had a hard time getting this Spit.

Cheers Dave C

All Spitfires were built as single seaters originally. After the war the Supermarine factory was looking for business and had trained workers, parts and production lines for Spitfires, but RAF was moving into the jet age. Yeah, I know jets will never look as beautiful, sound awful, and smell worse, but they go fast so it was progress. Anyway as a project to find business, they designed the 2 cockpit armed trainer version, to sell to foreign govts. Wouldn't it be great if the US had bought a couple hundred? The original prototype was a MKVIII, the one G-AIDN that was in the Oregon museum. All others were IXs, the front cockpit was moved forward 13 1/2 in, rear seat, intsruments fitted, with a larger rear canopy. Part of the wing guns were retained, fuel added in wings to replace one lower fuseage tank that had to be removed. A low altitude engine, 66? was used. I am uncertain of the dates for AIDN, I thought it was 1949, but may have been as early as 46 or 47. All chosen would have been low time like new airplanes. Mine,TE 308 was built at CBAF just before the end of the war and did not see combat. It was converted in 50-51 at Southhampton factory, new serial 163, one of 6 that went to Irish A C. I know of 20 converted, I have seen claims of 26 or 28, and a photo of a field 2 seat job in Russia. It was in active service till 9-61, when we sent our first man into space for perspective, and sold for the main camera plane for the 68 Battle of Britain movie. I have a photo of it landing with a big movie camera in the front seat and a pilot solo from the back seat. Our CAF guys, Lefty, LLoyd, Connie Edwards, flew in the movie. Lefty told me about Bader and Galland coming out one day and flying a Spit and a 109. Lefty said," We found out we weren't nearly as good as we though we were." Connie had to belly land the the 2 other seater with an engine fire. Mine is the only 2 seater I've flown, weather twice prevented me from flying Carolyns at Duxford. It flys great, very true, and docile near stall. Ask Bud Granley about Spitfire acro. The only real neg about the 2 seater other than the rear canopy making it look a little less nice, is that I have only 2:15 fuel at economy cruise, O boost, 1800rpm, 47gph at about 240mph true, so I only plan 1:30 legs. If I had about 25 more gal it would be a comfortable 2 hour cruise with good reserve. I like a limit of 185lb for cg for co pilot, and I have a little baggage space. I kept N308WK from a previous owner, and use the designer initials RJM. The paint scheme is as it would have been in RAF,service, not the airsick IAC green. I have been lucky enough to fly it for 24 years, beginning as a very low time 450 hour private pilot. I have never been in a plane that I thought, "Man, got to get one of these, it is better than a Spit". Bearcats are mentioned with the same respect, but you can't take a passenger and it doesn't have the looks or history. Mine has about 2500 hours and I have about a 1000 in 3 different Spits. I'd love to fly other versions.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

One can take a look at the photo under B O B Birthday Bash and see all teh wing designs in profile while banking. The Hurri, the clip wing Spit and the full span Spit which just looks like it is soaring. Man, looking at those photos for me is like a cop looking in the window of a donut shop!

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

interesting site with breakdown per mark, as well as handy reference chart:

http://www.supermarine-spitfire.co.uk/s ... iants.html


cheers

greg v.

I have a good friend here in town who flew Spits in the 308th FS 31st FG
12th AF from N. Africa 1943 to Castel Volturno, Italy 1944. His first Spit was a Mk Vb with the tropical filter. He liked it but said the speed was impared but flight characteristics weren't. He later flew the MKVIII. He's not sure of the sub type but it had the rounded tail with retractable tailwheel and the extented wingtips. He didn't feel the a/c was suitable for the missions they were flying and liked the MK IX best of all. Of all the things associated with the Spit, the one thing he hated the most was the centerline drop tank. I'm not sure what type he was referring to but he said that it had no baffles and made the airplane wallow around the sky like a "drunken cow"

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Don't touch my junk!!

STOP! You guys are driving me crazy!!

For the last year or so, I've ramped up my Spitfire reference collecting activities to the point that I'm as ready as I'll ever be to do my first Spitfire painting ... but commissions have pretty much taken up all of my time. Soo, all I can do is gaze longingly at my shelf and file of material, and listen to you guys talk!! Ahhh!!

Seriously, keep on talking about my second-favorite aircraft (P-51 being #1). I have several pieces in mind, starting with some Eagle Squadron and/or 4th FG Spitfire stuff - maybe AB910, still flying in the UK, and a two-kill kite with 133 Eagle Squadron. Got all the info I need, now just some magic pills to keep me awake!

Just last week I received my DVD copy of "A Spitfire's Story", about the OFMC's MH434. My very favorite part is the view forward through the windscreen as the late Mark Hanna puts her through a great aggressive routine at DX. Dang, I could watch that over and over again the rest of my life!

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Carry on!

Wade

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Website: http://www.wademeyersart.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/Wade.Meyers.Studios

I've never seen Mk. VIII without the pointed rudder nor with the extended wing tips. Sounds more like a Mk. VI, although I'm not sure any of those were ever fitted with retractable tailwheels. This is the toughest part about keeping track of the different Spits, there is always and exception to the rule it seems!